Maybe you already have.
“… So why don’t we tell our kids the truth about success? We could start with the fact that only a third of adults hold degrees from four-year colleges. Or that you’ll do equally well in terms of income, job satisfaction and life satisfaction whether you go to an elite private college or a less-selective state university. Or that there are there are many occupations through which Americans make a living, many of which do not require a college degree.” …
I respectfully disagree that grades in high school do not matter … my daughter received high dollar merit from many of the schools she applied to for fall 2018. Both my husband and I graduated from State schools in the 80s and have had success in our careers so that being said don’t go into debt for the prestige.
Equally well? There are many paths to any goal, but I don’t think it helps anyone to pretend that rigor doesn’t matter or that all schools are equally rigorous in all subjects or that grades or achievements don’t matter.
I think it’s fine to tell kids this…and nice to have data. But that said, sure it matters where you go to college…it influences future jobs, your friends, your insights, your mindset, your path…doesn’t mean that a large state university can’t be great (i went to one and have done swell in my career) but it feels a bit disingenuous to say that where you spend the 4 of the most influential years of your life has no impact on your life going forward.
I agree. While applications have increased drastically, admission slots for elite schools have stayed stagnant. This makes the school look more “selective” by choosing only the “brightest” students. This leads to more research grants. In reality, they’re getting money for doing literally nothing. On the other hand, regional universities are more than happy to take these rejects and expand their capacity. Take UTSA, for example. UT and UTSA are 75 miles apart. 15 years ago, UTSA was a no-name commuter school. As UT’s admissions standards have become tighter and tighter, UTSA has doubled in size and is one of the largest universities in Texas. This trend is happening all over the country.
We told our kid from the time he was little that it didn’t matter where he went to college (just not Ohio State). We didn’t care one whit where he went, only that he go. Not going to college was not an option in our house, but where he went was totally up to him. Not once did we ever look at stats or rankings or job outcomes. I don’t believe that happiness or success or how far you go in life have anything to do with the college you attend, and I don’t believe that any college will get you further faster than any other college or that any college will keep you from your goals. This whole board seems to be dedicated to arguing otherwise, but I’ll never buy it.
I think this is partially true. For me, my kids are going to college even if they want to follow a career that does not require it. I require it to help them develop.
As far as “you can do equally well” at any school, I’m of two minds on this. When i was a kid, this was true. I’m not sure it is anymore. With so many more kids going to college, it becomes harder to distinguish yourself. I’m not sure it is so easy to get to the top from anywhere anymore through sheer grit and intelligence. Sad.
The earnings disparities in certain professions from elite and non can be steep. While once you are there no one cares where you went to school, that doesn’t help you if you can’t get in the door.
Well what’s exactly the alternative?
If your kid did not get into an “elite” school or the money is just not there what are you suppose to tell your kid?
Sorry kid, you are just doomed?
@am9799, there’s a lot of rigor and opportunities to be found even at average public flagships, not just tippy-tops. Faculty strength in the US extends extremely deep. Pretty much all are research U’s and many are top-notch in various fields. And engineering is challenging almost everywhere.
But that doesn’t mean all colleges are equally rigorous in all fields and all offer the same opportunities.
Sure, sure. Then why is CC visited by many? Why stop there? Just tell kids it doesn’t matter if you go to college.
I think the point that you can achieve your goals regardless of where you went to college is becoming more and more common and more and more accurate. My best childhood friend is a professor at a large public state school I think most people on CC would rather not appear on their child’s list of applications. It is not a bad school but just not a tippy top and probably not even a reach for most average and above high school students.
This professor, to look at his academic background, would again not be anyone people would be jumping through hoops to get to. His undergrad was a small unremarkable directional school, his masters was a small seldom heard of regional school, and his PHD was from an offshoot of a flagship in a small midwestern state known more for football than anything else. Today he is the most respected mind in his field. The first book he published 25 years ago is still used as the go to resource in his field. Anytime I meet someone in his field and I ask if they have ever worked with or know of my friend the reaction is unbelievable, people worship him and what he has done in their field and are stunned that they now have a connection to this great mind.
Anyone that studies under him and does research with him can almost write their own ticket after graduation in spite of the school name on their diploma. The school doesn’t matter for them, the experience they gained at the school is what makes them so attractive.
This professor has had the opportunity to move to more prestigious schools however has turned them down time and again. He and his family like where they are at and the opportunities his university gives him to continue his research. I’m fairly certain that he is not unique in the world of academics, his story can probably be replicated at many schools that are not highly selective. It is becoming less about where you went and more about what you did while you were there.
The educational background of the author of this article.
Of course it matters where you attend college (and yes you can do just fine regardless).If you’ve ever hired anyone you’ll know you look at resumes and weigh criteria (including where they went to school) to determine who you interview. If I get 20 resumes and want to interview 5 people, I’m speaking to the top candidates. If they are all right out of undergrad, I’m likely going with the better schools. if they are in industry for awhile, I look at experience but if all things are equal, again going with the better school. Why wouldn’t I do that? Of course then it comes down to the individual, but often where they went to school (and how they did at school) determines if they even get a chance. Just the way it is.
Honestly I am getting sick of this theme on the CC forum. So many threads go on and on with people saying how they really don’t care about Ivies etc. So many posts by people being “sensible” and avoiding debt for prestige and instead sending kid to state U. Honestly I think there is a little bit of protesting too much.
This article mixed up a of issues. I would say that our kids should grow up in a way that encourages inner motivation instead of false outside motivators like grades and college admission.
I didn’t look at my kids’ report cards at all and they never knew their GPA
Then again, a couple did end up at Ivies even though we didn’t mention college until late junior year and didn’t emphasize top schools one bit. And one of mine ended up at community college- just as smart as the others and doing fine now at a 4 year that fits her.
I said this in another thread and will say it again. I think college is about the experience and not just the outcome in terms of jobs and money. That sounds elitist but students with the attitude that they are learning because they want to often end up doing just fine with jobs.
So yeah, tell the kids the truth. Grades are just a way to measure learning and everyone- the teachers and students- have forgotten that and think grades are the real goal. College is also about learning but in this day and age if high tuitions and loans, pressure is on to also make it about concrete goals of grades and jobs.
We need to relax about college as much as the article seems to want us to relax about high school. Life zigs and zags but if you work hard, it tends to work out- without unexpected disasters of course.
And as for quality of experience, Ivies are great. You can get the same experience at a state school with effort. Isn’t that obvious? I just don’t get the constant discussion about this. It seems to stem more from not getting in or not being able to pay than any actual evaluation of the experiences at the schools themselves.
@ChoatieMom “I don’t believe that happiness or success or how far you go in life have anything to do with the college you attend, and I don’t believe that any college will get you further faster than any other college or that any college will keep you from your goals.”
I sort of understand your point but if you replaced “college” above with “high school” or even “elite private boarding school” would you feel the same?
Colleges are places that challenge students to grow intellectually and socially. Some colleges simply do that better than others. It’s comforting to say they don’t matter, but they do. Look through the threads on CC you’ll find some students that are miserable at their school and others that are ecstatic. Smart money says the ecstatic student will do better later on.
^ Same with HS, in fact.
And grad school.
It does matter where you go to college. Those who say otherwise mostly trying to justify their choices. There’s a reason why some schools are in higher demand then others. On the other hand college is not for everyone and sometimes successful plumber makes more over life long carrier then MD who spends many years in school and another decade or so paying back college debt.
It all depends on kids. Bill Gate will be very successful whatever school he went to.
@Ballerina016 You’re painting with a really broad brush. You can have the opinion that the college you attend doesn’t really matter and not be trying to justify a choice that was made.