It's Baaaack!

Parent Cafe
1

Anyone remember this discussion about a ROW we granted our neighbor in 2010?

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1223172-strange-legal-bill-p13.html

So the land was sold, then resold, and the second buyer built a house on it.

Now he and his wife are starting to have to send the kids from his first marriage to college, and they’ve decided that they “overbuilt” and want to subdivide their 4-acre lot into 2 2-acre lots–the minimum size in our zone–build a smaller house on the back lot, and sell their current house. (Their current house is probably no more than 2500 sq ft, and not a McMansion-y kind of place at all, BTW.) They say that if we don’t agree, they will have to just sell their house and move.

Here’s the kicker: they want us to agree to amend the legal agreement covering the easement/ROW to allow 2 houses, not one. For free.

This is one of those “no good deed goes unpunished” situations.

2

Once again, we said we would consider make the amendment, in order to be nice and help them out. Oh, how I wish we had simply said no.

We derive absolutely no benefit from this, and open ourselves up to potential harm due to increased road use, the possibility that the town will at some future point require that it be widened, paved, and lighted, since it would no longer be strictly one person’s driveway, loss of property value as a result, etc.

After seeking legal advice, we decided to agree if certain conditions were met: they pay all legal costs (these will be modest), there be no further clearing, widening, or paving along the ROW, and no lighting, and they pay us a modest compensation of $5,000. (Do note that they could, once we agree, simply divide the property, build another house, sell both of them, and walk off with whatever profit they make.)

Frankly, I ultimately told H that although I’d rather not do it, I would be willing to do it if they paid us enough money to redo a bathroom we have that is in rocky condition, and we have a bid for $7,000. In my view, this would offset the potential loss of property value to a reasonable degree. This is, of course, our private calculation, and we will not be sharing it with anyone else.I actually wanted to ask for $10K, but H, who is again the one talking to the lawyer, gave her the $5K figure, which she had initially floated.

Our lawyer just emailed us a copy of an email from their lawyer, in which he used terms such as “over-reaching” and “profiteering.” He complained about the idea that they should cover our legal fees. Apparently he and/or they think that we should simply hand over what they want and literally pay for the privilege!

3

I’d say no. I think you are helping them at a price too low to compensate you for the hassle and loss of property value.

Have you talked to a well-regarded real estate agency in your area about the impact on your property value of having another house there? To me, that would be a downside.

Their lawyer is using hardball tactics which would be enough for me to say No Way! His word choice is inflammatory.

I like my privacy. The less houses around me the better.

Are you on septic/well water? Another reason to say no if so. You never know how another house will impact the water table and the flow rate from your well.

4

I agree with the advice to talk to a realtor in your area to see how adding another home to the shared drive would impact the value of your home. How would maintenance on the drive work with an additional home? Snow removal (if you are up north)?

I would also be very tempted to just say “no” after the response from their attorney. You have nothing to lose here if they say they’ll be moving anyway.

5

I think my response might have been, “What’s in it for me (us)?” or “What’s it worth to you?” in my best Brooklyn accent.

6

I can’t think of a reason to agree to their request. Esp in light of the response from their attorney. They need to sell and downside. There is no reason for this to inconvenience you. Just say NO.
Do not offer an explanation.

7

They are going to sell their house and move out of it anyway, so refusing to go along just means they have to move a bit further away.

8

I was thinking about talking to a realtor. I think I will.

@doschicos I had exactly the same reaction to their lawyer’s tactics. It made me furious, and I am tempted to say, “On second thought, NO.” which we still may. If he thinks that he is going to intimidate us, he’s nuts. Really, why on earth should we even entertain their request, much less be insulted by them or their lawyer?

One idea he floated was that if they paid us the $5k–which is really not enough–they would want to have the deed to the easement land. I am strongly tempted to come back with an offer to sell it to them for no less than $25K. >:) We might do that, too.

In addition to his insulting language, his email also contains directly conflicting assertions, to wit:

A) The effects on us would be so minimal as to be hardly distinguishable, perhaps one more car occasionally using the drive. (Really? And entire 4 bedroom house in a semi-rural location will use one car? What, will they own a transporter? Horse and buggy? :slight_smile: )
B) They couldn’t possibly agree to the stated restrictions because the TOWN might make them pave, widen, and light the ROW. (Note that there is no fear at all of this happening as long as it is simply a very long driveway for ONE HOUSE, as stated in the original agreement!)

Bub, you can’t have it both ways.

And it goes on. I’m wondering what law school he attended. :smiley:

ETA: we are on septic, but it is HIGHLY unlikely it would be affected. We are not on well water.

9

In my view the 5K doesn’t even begin to compensate you for the aggravation and racket of having a house constructed in what is basically your back or side yard. Think of the heavy machinery and noise associated with building a new house. Then add in your loss of privacy, the possible loss of value to your own property and the uncertainty of who your new neighbors will be and I would just say absolutely not.

They are building on the back lot so they will be least affected by the additional traffic. And they are looking to you to grant the ROW free of charge while they profit on an arrangement that inconveniences the original landowners? I find that hilarious.

10

I would say NO unequivocally.

11

just say NO!!
its their problem. not yours. ESPECIALLY given the insulting language of their attny.
if they ask why ,you can tell them their attny blew it for them. period.
You gain NOTHING by negotiating with self serving people who think they can strong arm neighbors into signing agreements that only benefit themselves.
stay strong.

12

I am another who would just say no. If they couldn’t afford the land and home they built then that is not your problem. They can move to smaller house on a smaller lot somewhere else.

13

Say NO!

As you have pointed out, who knows what the next request will be. Sounds like death by a thousand cuts to me.

No have no obligation to oblige their request.

14

Upon receiving that letter from the attorney, I would have said, “No, sorry, we won’t take that kind of intimidation and we have decided we won’t be able to help you.” I wonder if I know the attorney, ha! I have a couple of possibilities in mind… There are sure some snakes in our community. :frowning:

15

“Here’s the kicker: they want us to agree to amend the legal agreement covering the easement/ROW to allow 2 houses, not one. For free.”

They are essentially asking you to give them a lot of money. This is not much different from them asking you to put their kids through college.

Say no.

16

No. Just say no.

17

Another vote for a vehement no. You played nice once, and now their lawyer is getting nasty thinking she/he can steamroll you.
Your property value will go down with twice the number of neighboring cars and visitors, plus the possibility of someone building a McMansion on the newly divided part. This can not work out to your advantage in the long run. $5000 or even $10000 will prove to be nothing compared to your loss of value.

18

You shouldn’t put up with insults. Just say no.

19

The sooner they move, the better. Let your “no” be their motivation to do so. You’ve already paid for college – their financial difficulties are not your problem!

20

The tone of their lawyer doesn’t surprise me. He’s just looking to cut their costs and maximize their profits. (And his charges, likely.) But, that’s for them, not you. Don’t back down.

Hope you have a freindly realtor who will state the devalue to your property is far more than 5k. You’re right, in a 4 BR house, likely 2 cars, guests, kids will grow up and drive. Stick to your own interests. No Mr and Ms Nice Guy.