<p>Thanks all. I was feeling bad because this is about the 3rd year in a row that my son asked for a Chuck E Cheese party and I had to explain that we don’t have enough people to meet their quota. :(</p>
<p>Heck with the whining, we are going to the pool anyhow. I’ve baked some natural chocolate chip cookies, a gluten free spice cake for me, and I’m having a sheet pizza delivered, just in case someone comes, and if not, I won’t cook for a couple of days. And to hell with the money!</p>
<p>In an effort to keep some money circulating in our own little corner of the world here, I have made the considered decision to KEEP our housecleaning service going. My reasoning includes the fact that the ladies that clean our house live close by and that this business is a very important part of their income. I am pretty frugal myself, and just routinely buy off of the clearance rack, don’t buy coffees, and only go to the movies when I have a gift card, and then only matinees. However, I know that my $60.00 per week makes more of a difference to them than to me, and I am doing my part to keep a tiny bit of the economy moving.</p>
<p>That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. ;)</p>
<p>I am becoming a firm believer in the “time is money” philosophy. If I had to clean my own house, it (a) wouldn’t get done and (b) I’d have less time to play on CC. Playing on CC is a far less expensive hobby than shopping, so it is a win-win situation.</p>
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<p>Bank of America is currently offering a 5.59% rate on new car loans.</p>
<p>The point is that OP’s blanket judgments about the value of frugality/no debt is not necessarily the most beneficial to our economy, nor each person’s circumstances.</p>
<p>I have seen way too many people buy a car they really cannot afford, and then find themselves upside down in the loan when they either need to sell it, or it gets totalled in an accident and they have to get a new car. The cost to pay off the loan exceeds the value of the car, which compounds their problem. I have had a car loan in the past, but now buy cars with cash. I understand the need to finance some bigger purchases. Even if someone chooses to take a car loan (and in this hurting economy, there are probably some close to 0% loans to be found on cars the dealers are having trouble selling) the risk of owing more on a car than it is worth, especiaaly with 4 or 5 year loans, is high, and it is not a position I’d want to be in.</p>
<p>"You know what? A lot of this just seems like minutiae to me. To the original poster, be grateful every day that you wake up with a working body, because no amount of money or education can fix an unhealthy one. Be grateful everyday that you have a family who cares so much about you that you can concern yourself with money, and your education, and you probably don’t even think twice about traveling or moving away because you still believe that they will support you when you need them.</p>
<p>Today was supposed to be a birthday party for my son, who turns 9 on Friday. I have spent almost 2 decades trying to have meaningful holidays and birthdays for my daughter, so I know what is in store for my son. I know that my family stinks and that the only person who I can ever count on to come is my mother. </p>
<p>So I had my son passed out invitations to all of his classmates, and I reserved a room and time at the local pool, so that he could have children at his party, so that it could feel like a family. NOT ONE PERSON RSVP’D. What the hell happened to manners? I spent yesterday calling people on the list, and at least 4 parents said “Yeah, I got it, no, he/she’s not coming”. I am angry enough to feel that I don’t ever want my son to socialize with anyone so ill-mannered anyhow. </p>
<p>So I am trying to decide if I should cancel this party or go anyhow and hope that one person who didn’t respond shows up. </p>
<p>One year, we went camping during my son’s birthday (figured what the hell, it’s not like there’s anyone to have at the party), and I literally walked to nearby cabins and invited strangers to bring their children so that my son could have children. Pathetic.</p>
<p>It’s not like I don’t try either, although I am limited by the fact that I work from home. I basically lost my teen-years friends when I became a mother at 20, and then spent the rest of my years in college and building a business. My son goes to gymnastics, dance, has gone to T-ball, I was room parent and went to every school function, I am friendly to every one that I meet.</p>
<p>But it all really boils down to this – it doesn’t matter how much money you have, how educated you are, how good you are at your career, or how good you look (if you are one of those “blessed” people), NONE of this will ever make up for lack of a supportive and loving family. </p>
<p>I would be willing to take 30 points off of my IQ to have a better family. I’d live in a box on the street, so long as I had a family with me. I’d give away every possession that I have, including my education, if I could fix my family. Be grateful if your family wanted you, because it is days like today that I truly wish that I had been given up for adoption to a family that really wanted a child."</p>
<p>Again, somebody who missed the whole point of this whole thread. I never said money or education is the key in life.</p>
<p>Like I said before, I do value experiences over money. </p>
<p>The point I am still trying to make is that you have to think about the future with you are making decisions. That’s why so mnay people are in trouble right now. They bought a house they can’t afford, a car they can’t afford, etc.</p>
<p>As a side note, is your son friends with everyone in his class? When I had birthday parties, I would never invite the whole class. I would invite maybe 5 or so people who I was friends with. If I didn’t know somebody that well who was in my class, I probably wouldn’t go to their birthday party.</p>
<p>And on another side note, it seems like you are trying to make friends for your son. Let him do it on his own. Inviting strangers to your son’s party in the woods?</p>
<p>I will post this again just in case some people missed it:</p>
<p>"What do YOU value? That’s more compelling than “people.”</p>
<p>To tell you the truth, I value experiences over money.</p>
<p>Here are some things I value:
Music
Collecting Autographs
Books
“Seinfeld”</p>
<p>I can write a whole book about why I value these things. That is for another thread.</p>
<p>This whole thread was about being frugal with your money. I never said that you should save every penny.</p>
<p>I like that I don’t have any credit card debt. If I can’t afford something, then I won’t buy it. </p>
<p>Just watched the Suze Orman show. It is kind of funny because some of the things that were mentioned in this thread were stated in the show.</p>
<p>There was a woman that came onto the show who is 55 and only has 55K in retirement. Plus, she now has to take care of her elderly mother by providing round the clock nurses. On top of that, she is paying for her child’s education (which is $40,000 for 2 years).</p>
<p>Now tell me. Who wants to be in that situation? The sad part is that the woman is making $60,000 as a nurse and she has very little saved up.</p>
<p>But of course some people on here think it is fine for people to live this way. They want to be worried about their finances and live on the edge every day.</p>
<p>One other part of the show that applied to this thread is a man that wanted to buy a $24,500 Lost in Space robot. Suze denied him and he didn’t buy the robot. The question that really struck when she asked the man is if he is still happy that he didn’t purchase the robot. His answer was that he will still be happy without the robot. DING DING DING.</p>
<p>What have I been saying since the beginning of this thread? There are some people who don’t think about the consequences of their actions before they purchase something (whether it is $25 or $25,000). People think “Oh, $25 is only $25.” But the $25 adds on to the other $25 purchases, and so on. You should also be saying to yourself if you can live without the purchase and if you can wait until the item’s price declines.</p>
<p>The point I want to try to make is that you should always think about your purchases before you make them. You should look for possible cheaper alternatives. That is all I have been saying since the beginning of this thread. I never said you shouldn’t indulge yourself, but it should be within reason.</p>
<p>Here is an article that relates to this thread:</p>
<p>How to save $100 a week with coupons.</p>
<p>[Yahoo</a>! Personal Finance](<a href=“Yahoo Finance - Stock Market Live, Quotes, Business & Finance News”>Yahoo Finance - Stock Market Live, Quotes, Business & Finance News)</p>
<p>I just want to add one more thing, because I feel like some people have gotten the wrong impression.</p>
<p>My goal in life is not to be rich, it is to be stable. I don’t want to ever have to be in a situation where I am in an enormous amount of debt. I want to be able to buy something and to know that I can afford it.</p>
<p>"I didn’t think op was disrespectful, and even if he is young he made some valid points, we can agree or disagree with his opinions without considering his youth. </p>
<p>insomniatic : oldfort has a good point. There is two sides to savings - increase income and taking control of expenses. We just had a conversation with our kids yesterday on this very same subject. My son seem to have the savings side down pat, but not the earnings side. But both income and expenses has to be taken into consideration. Not saying you don’t but we have not talked about that at all in this thread. </p>
<p>ETA : I think you will enjoy the series “The Millionaires next door”. aka penny pinchers shall inherit the earth."</p>
<p>Munchkin:</p>
<p>You are right. I am very good at saving, but I need to work on the expenses part. I sell a lot on EBAY and sometimes I don’t take into consideration the final value fees that they take out. I need to learn to keep track of my expenses on a day to day or week to week basis.</p>
<p>Errr, my son is in the 3rd grade. Typically at that age, it is the parent who arranges a supervised party (in the woods? wth was that about?), asks the child how many are in the class, prints up such invitations with no names on them, and directs the child to pass out the invitations to the kids in class. </p>
<p>On a more positive note, one child did show up!</p>
<p>And the point of your thread was that you have no empathy for people who find themselves in financial difficulty, because you apparently think that if life and finances are directed like a well-controlled mission, there will be no slip-ups. </p>
<p>The point is that when my husband was 32, he had perfect credit, had owned a home already, owned several vehicles, and had been at his job for a number of years. Cancer took all of that but the house and van (and it almost got those too). No young person is prepared for a catastrophe. </p>
<p>And who you are born to also has a lot to do with how you weather the storms in life. I know a professional man who still gets financially bailed out by his parents. He is in his 40’s, went to a private college, has been in the military, was married, had a house, and has no kids, but this guy still can’t seem to keep it together. And it doesn’t even matter, because his father keeps paying his way out of whatever. Not having that luxury, I try a lot harder not to have such problems.</p>
<p>My father is basically the only apparent nutcase on his side of the family. His grandparents were the first generation here, they came over from Italy, did not speak the language. The husband found a job, the wife took boarders in the home. They had 8 children. Not a one of them was ever arrested and they all went on to work and own their own homes and survived the depression. </p>
<p>My father’s parents literally built their own home, brick by brick. My grandfather worked at a steel plant, and my grandmother raised 4 boys while also working in her community. Their home was fully paid for well before retirement age, and it’s a good thing, since my grandfather dropped dead of a heart attack on the golf course at 53. </p>
<p>The thing is, I don’t see how this lifestyle is possible today. Even if you are not a social climber, society is driven by what others have. We were talking the other day about a time when pop and chips were only for parties, not everyday foods. How we didn’t have cable, video games, microwaves, and TVs in restaurants. I suppose that the computer and the internet is a driving force. Take the school supply list. At my daughter’s college, a laptop is MANDATED. I’m not saying it’s not useful, but mandatory? I got through college without one, as I’m sure Einstein did! And it’s only a matter of time before it shows up on my grade school child’s supply list. When I was a kid, we didn’t have expensive calculators, and I made it through college algebra and statistics. How much has math changed? </p>
<p>And I don’t think that I see all of this as progress. All I hear today is kids saying “I’m bored”.</p>
<p>insomniatic, you’re 21, you live at home with your parents, you don’t have much experience with working for a living, paying for housing, utilities, transportation, insurance, and so on. Sure, people shouldn’t live beyond their means, but the parents here are not the right audience for your advice; you don’t have the experience to be a credible source to this audience on financial matters.</p>
<p>I think it’s just bizarre that you would start a thread like this in this forum. It’s great that you watch your expenses and don’t live beyond your means, but even you have to acknowledge that that is MUCH easier to do when you don’t even pay for the roof over your head.</p>
<p>Yeah, I mean really, when I was growing up, 18 was an adult. “You are 18, get a job and pay room and board, or get married and get out” was the common refrain when I was a teen. Heck, if you were 21 and living at home back then, you’d be in debt because you’d owe the value of room, board, laundry, etc… Of course, now if your kid leaves home before 21 and is not self-supporting, they can sue you for child support.</p>
<p>whatapain: Awesome that a guest showed up! I have a summer birthday and I know how it feels to have most kids away on vacation when your birthday rolls around. An no cupcakes at school. You’re doing a great job making the best of it with your third grader. As an adult, most people are at their jobs in the summer, so at least he’ll get birthday cakes and celebrations at work! I’m an independent now and I miss those days (even though my family does indulge me).
Insomnia - it’s good that you’re starting out life with a conservative approach to finances - and are not planning to spend outside of your means. But please do understand that, as many have pointed out, life throws curveballs at us sometimes and we go into debt for things that we NEED. Like medical care. This is the only developed country in the world where an individual can go bankrupt due to illness. Yes, even with insurance paying 10% or 20% of the bill, a catastrophic event can drain your money VERY quickly.<br>
So, yes it pays to control what you can, and perhaps limit spending on things you don’t really need (unlike you, I think many folks get that - perhaps after taking a few lumps). But job loss, divorce, sickness, recessions and other bad things happen.<br>
So, yeah, you’re on the right track. But you’ll need more life experience before people start taking your advice seriously. You know, the old “walk a mile in their shoes” quote. It makes sense.</p>
<p>We don’t have the closest and most loving family either. And since we moved here about 8 years ago, we really are not that familiar with the area and have no long term relationships here. But we have met people, and have created a family of sorts in the neighborhood, the schools, the church, etc. In doing so, we have extended our family.
Son’s last b-day party was just in the yard. Two hours of kids just running and playing, shooting each other with foam guns that I picked up at the dollar shop along with shop goggles to protect the eyes (not necessary, force of the guns in shooting out the sponges was minimal). Bought a big cake at Costco and provided lemonade, iced tea, and ice water. Timed the party for mid afternoon so I did not have to feed them. Kids had a great time, everyone thrilled.
Every Christmas we get a huge tree and have a tree trim party the week after Thanksgiving that has grown to enormous proportions as all my kids invite their friends, and now it has become a tradition for a lot of people. Initially reluctant family now come.<br>
This summer we’ll do a barbecue, crab feast at MIL’s house which we finally cleaned up in June so that this is possible. Expect this to become a family tradition to celebrate everything, everyone has had during the year, the birthdays, retirements, graduations, etc.</p>
<p>You have to make your family, traditions, celebrations friends. You try to bloom where you are planted. And parties, get togethers do not have to be expensive. Don’t plan them around a meal or do pot luck.</p>
<p>“Typically at that age, it is the parent who arranges a supervised party (in the woods? wth was that about?)”</p>
<p>You said you invited strangers to your son’s birthday party when you went camping. I assume that you camp in the woods. I would be embarrased if my mother brought over kids that I don’t know to my birthday party.</p>
<p>I know that most of you won’t take my advice seriously because of my age and my lack of experience. That is your choice.</p>
<p>Thank you for those that understood me.</p>
<p>Your age has nothing to do with it, I wouldn’t take anyone seriously who makes blanket statements about people and who shows a lack of empathy. </p>
<p>Didn’t they teach you in college to avoid the multiple choice question that uses words like “never” or “always”? It’s the same principle. If you make blanket statements, for example “I don’t feel sorry for people who are in debt, they must be poor at budgeting”, you are insulting a whole segment of people who tried to plan life just like anyone else and made a misstep. </p>
<p>When people say stuff like “People on food stamps need to get a job”, they fail to realize that you can have a job and get food stamps. And perhaps the person on food stamps is a domestic violence victim. Society says “Leave your abuser”, but then when she does, she is abused by the public for accepting welfare or food stamps? And you may say, “Well, I don’t mean people like that”, but when you make blanket statements, those people read them too. </p>
<p>How you feel says a lot about you and your feelings towards people and your understanding, empathy, and tolerance for those who have had a difficult time in life. </p>
<p>Actually, I believe that was my son’s 6th birthday, and he thought it was great! So did the kids who came, because I made a red cake.</p>
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<p>From my experience, even leverage on the upside is not something we can all take, let alone on the downside. When we were trying to re-establish our portfolio, my thought was to use borrowed money based on the house which then I can deduct from my income as investment expenses. What I discovered was that I was turning my wife into a nervous wreck. Even I, who thought he has ice water in his veins, found it hard to hold a heavy leveraged position for long periods of time of five years or more. If we could take it better, maybe I could have done it at 45.</p>
<p>Did I hear someone mentioned divorce? In my humble opinion, a strong marriage is the foundation of financial planning, just as much as earning, saving and yes, waiting. No financial planner will ever, however, say so. It may not be politically correct, but it is reality.</p>
<p>Whatapainthisis:</p>
<p>Posted below is what I said in post #1. I said that I don’t feel sorry for people who spend beyond their means and then cry when they are in debt.</p>
<p>“I know that this might sound cruel, but I don’t feel sorry for most Americans who are in debt or who can’t pay their bills. I can bet you 9 times out of 10 (you can see a lot of these people on the Suze Orman show) that these people buy 10 times the amount of things that they needed. To me, that is their own fault and they should be responsible for their own consequences.”</p>
<p>Well, speaking of marriage – despite the divorce rate of 50%, people keep having kids, which arguably causes them to go into debt. </p>
<p>I know a woman who stopped her education at 18 and never worked outside of the home, and raised her kids. This was very convenient for her husband. But now that the kids are grown, the husband has become vicious, abusive (burned her with an iron recently), and constantly threatens to divorce her because she is “fat” (always has been) and “does nothing”. And all she can think about is how to make him love her again. She has been told time and again “You need to get a GED, you need to start looking out for yourself, he’s done too much damage”, but she is paralyzed with fear and won’t do anything.</p>
<p>So here’s the question – does anyone have a right to enter into this arrangement, given the current divorce rate? Should any person decide to forego an education or a career to work at home and care for kids, when the reality is that if there is a divorce, the person who raised the kids usually sees a huge drop in money and quality of life?</p>
<p>I mean, hypothetically, let’s say that neither could afford kids alone before marriage. But through marriage, they can afford to care for one household, themselves, and a kid. So what about the likelihood of divorce?</p>