<p>yeah, that part sucked…by the time you posted it was obsolete</p>
<p>Was anyone else surprised that Fides didn’t jump in?</p>
<p>^yes i was very surprised lol, maybe he doesnt come on the penn forum</p>
<p>Yes, maybe the Penn forum is just too sacrilegious for him, though he may just have been trying to avoid me.</p>
<p>lol, qwilde I felt like you avoided every post I directed at YOU</p>
<p>lol hey guys-</p>
<p>As an OP, i never expected anything like this…</p>
<p>This thread was the most intense, opinionated thread ever!!!</p>
<p>I was very very very impressed by these Penn EDers… wow…
I mean if you all got accepted to Upenn, u would hab discussions just as intense as this at Penn!!! like 24/7! ahahahahha</p>
<p>good luck guys </p>
<p>from Cornell ED…:)</p>
<p>i know i’m kind of late on this, but i just want to make a small statement of some sort…</p>
<p>i’ve been reading most of your replies and many of the “athiests” seem to be all content with the argument “if god exists who created him?” and then the religious guys say “god doesnt have a creator because is lives forever.” at the end of it all, the athiests come out feeling like they won and proved something. but if you look at this from the flip side, how is it possible that the universe itself existed forever? where did the universe itself come from? how do you as athiests come to believe this? do you even have any beliefs, for that matter? science is not the antithesis of religion; rather, it is a general term for the study of our world. now, since i believe that science is objective, what makes it subjective (ie science as proof that god does or does not exist) are the ideologies that we bring to it. for example, i don’t know if you agree with the big bang theory, but according to me, a huge mass just existing in the middle of empty nothingness is much harder to believe than a god/higher being. </p>
<p>in my opinion, arguing that god had to be created is nonsense because god is not of this world and not subject to our logic and laws.</p>
<p>lol, in case an adcom is reading this and wants to accept cc penn eders, my facebook link is here which has my name on it… lol</p>
<p><a href=“Redirecting...”>Redirecting...;
<p>edit- this was a joke by the way… not to be taken seriously</p>
<p>I didn’t really see any of your posts in the chaotic madness. Actually, there were quite a few that I responded to in elaborate detail, but I disregarded them because by the time I had finished the forum was on another topic all together.</p>
<p>Why can’t the universe be self-caused? Why does a creator have to create it?</p>
<p>do you believe in a self-caused universe? if then, can you explain to me where in the world all of this came from a vast nothingness and how in the world it came with the perfect-life supporting universe? the probabilites of that are zero according to science.</p>
<p>48151…etc</p>
<p>“he is beyond all logic and laws” </p>
<p>…Sweet. I would say that that’s exactly the “reasoning” that I fail to be so moved by.</p>
<p>I do not like discussing these types of things with religious folk in general as I really do not want to cast any doubt on your beliefs-- (Yes I know I flatter myself to think that I even could)-- but it has happened before with people I’ve spoken with and I sincerely regret it. However, if you’re going to assume that atheists have no reasoning at all behind what we “believe” I’d ask you to PM me first and I’ll explain myself to you. If you don’t care, that’s fine too. Don’t make mindless assertions though please.</p>
<p>hoyl crap this thread is insane…i clicked on it, expecting the same old “I cant wait I cant wait” but damn this discussion is deep. i dont know about anyone else, but its so hard to follow all the opinions and i tried to read from the beginning but too much info is flooding into my mind…ill just go back to my “ill do something meaningful in 72 hours but absolutely nothing before” attitude…</p>
<p>at some point in time (religious or scientific) something had to have come out of nothing. i guess this is where faith comes in… u either believe in physical/chem theorems of “creation” or u believe that this god dude did all of it. neither has enough proof, both have more than enough argument. </p>
<p>u decide…</p>
<p>^ridwitit (sp?) lol read through it, in the end we are like whatever… cant wait for the ed results</p>
<p>hahaha…i just get fired up and frustrated in these kinds of discussions…i couldnt help it…but i guess, so does everyone else</p>
<p>i’m almost 100% sure i won’t make it to penn anyways</p>
<p>You are approaching cause and affect in a conventional sense. Although our time is a syntetic allusion, time is definitely an aspect of this universe. Since time is apart of our universe and time affects causation (temporal causation), causation cannot exist oustide of the universe. Just because events require causes in our universe does not mean that the actuation of the universe requires a cause. </p>
<p>The universe does not require god(s). There are laws of nature that govern the universe and they are testable. People believe in gravity because evidently there is a force at work and it is not Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. You cannot test the theory of god and there is no compelling proof that such entities exist, so science is anti-religion.</p>
<p>so god needs proof but the creation of the universe doesnt need proof?
im not doubting scientific laws, yes we’ve tested them to no end, but i guess i dont see how you can separate time & space and still have a universe to live in. </p>
<p>is this madd theoretical physics? cuz im not a fan of that. lol</p>
<p>Lost Numbers.</p>
<p>I didn’t say that proof isn’t required, I just merely stated that traditional causation is essentially warped, as the advent of the universe “occured” before space and time existed. Eventually, I’m sure proof will be discovered.</p>