<p>lol, i think clearly if anyone were insane enough to read all twenty pages with an unbiased view, we won the debate. i agree jennyanne.</p>
<p>“that’s what atheists believe, but it’s also a faith. there are plenty of things science cannot yet answer. how life operates, schrodinger cat, and the whole quantum physics field… sure you can say we have not yet found an answer but we will in the future, and that’s the same as chrisitians say they will understand gods plan eventually. and god gave us the bible by inspiring the apostles. how can he do that? cuz he’s all-powerful. if you want proof of this, there are plenty of miracles in the bible. if you doubt the bible, there are still prob. evidence out there to prove it, but in christianity people are not meant to be persuaded in order to believe. it’s like trying to explain the rules of inverse matices when you don’t believe 1+1=2.”</p>
<p>Having faith does not require a person to believe in god. God is not all powerful and I will be happy to support this statement if requested to do so. I do doubt the bible, since most of it is has been adopted through various cultures and religions and most of the stories were initially heresay. Are you aware that the concept Noah’s Arc was copied from the Samaritan’s?</p>
<p>qwilde: </p>
<p>i agree with you, and that’s one of my biggest doubts against christianity; it’s sometime very inhuman. jefferson said millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned. the explaination of these tragedies is that god intended it to be. some people may think this foolish, but if people still have faith to believe all is good and all is mercy, then it’s perfectly ok for them to believe. and if they get defensive when they are mocked, the have a right to be angry.</p>
<p>jenny:</p>
<p>“letmepass: Religion/philosophy-- THOSE are things you believe in. Science is not. Science is testable. People who don’t understand the elegance of that are the ones who generally relate the two as if they’re in any way comparable…”</p>
<p>there are plenty of atheists out there who don’t believe in any religion/philosophy wutsoeva. to me science is very much similar to humanism, and it takes faith to believe in it. centries back did people have faith to believe in galileo’s scientific finding? no. but now we believe in technology and take advantage of it…except the amish, they still don’t have much faith in science wutsoeva.</p>
<p>mmkay and jennyanne89, how about I pretend to believe in god and devise some kafkaesque reasoning for his/her/it’s/the fallacy’s existence that you can argue against?</p>
<p>mmkay: “you guys” obviously did not win this debate, much less outright. If it was that obvious that God doesnt exist than a majority of the world would not believe in Him.</p>
<p>What if I killed someone and then responded with “God instructed me to do so”. Would that be justified? Would that be apart of God’s ultimate plan?</p>
<p>mmkay, i disagree.
i think organized religion has done an amazing lot for developing societies and economies. keeping people under control might make us ethically uncomfortable but the whole system has managed to bring laws and a judiciary system to a civilization that was otherwise absolutely confused. mebbe there were other ways of establishing such control (hence the different political systems) but at the time, mebbe “god” and a fear of an afterlife was the only thing that could convince ppl to do good stuff & not randomly run around stealing/murdering/raping/etc. </p>
<p>it worked, dude. for what its worth, i cant hate on the system of organized religion when its stabilized my life in the way it has. </p>
<p>ps: i also dont buy into the whole “god as an entity” deal. the concepts much more abstract than that; its all abt the romance of life.</p>
<p>“Having faith does not require a person to believe in god. God is not all powerful and I will be happy to support this statement if requested to do so. I do doubt the bible, since most of it is has been adopted through various cultures and religions and most of the stories were initially heresay. Are you aware that the concept Noah’s Arc was copied from the Samaritan’s?”</p>
<p>you can have faith in something other than god. yes, i’m aware the bible has been adopted many times, but chrisitans believe god’s will has perserved it to deliver the message it was intended to.</p>
<p>qwilde - einstein believed in God. lol. yea but seriously on the subject.
i really don’t know how to respond to you on the time/causation argument, if God does exist, God is not susceptible to the laws and logic that he himself created, which would only make sense; thus your argument doesnt really apply.</p>
<p>evolution is not proven. nope. that’s why its still called a theory. there may be substantial evidence but no proof, sorry. by the way, there’s even a lot of evidence in the scientific community about the validity of evolution. only a small portion of scientists today totally back evolution. but that’s besides the point. evolution does not refute god.</p>
<p>and yes, even your tidy uncertainty principle is up for debate (from wikipedia): The basic debate between Einstein and Bohr (including Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle) was that Einstein was in essence saying: “Of course, we can know where something is; we can know the position of a moving particle if we know every possible detail, and thereby by extension, we can predict where it will go.” Bohr and Heisenberg were saying the opposite: “There is no way to know where a moving particle is ever even given every possible detail, and thereby by extension, we can never predict where it will go.”</p>
<p>jyanks - in my perspective, the bible puts meaning behind the logic and science. and saying “meaning” opens up another whole pathway of debate which i don’t feel like arguing; so keep any comments to yourself and i will do the same.</p>
<p>additionally, please don’t make false assumptions about christianity; it makes you seem like a fool to people who know about the bible and christianity as i may seem like an ignorant fool to you.</p>
<p>to everyone - before you diss christianity, you need to understand the concept. i’ll try my best to explain what i believe through a christian perspective if you guys ask, but i’m no scholar in the area.</p>
<p>You obviously are not familiar with scientific terms:</p>
<p>A theory is something that has been extensively proven due to its predictive use during application.
A HYPOTHESIS is something that has not been proven. </p>
<p>I really suggest you get your terms right.</p>
<p>And tell me: What is the difference between evidence and proof? You seem to feel there is. </p>
<p>And a small percentage of scientists believe in evolution? Try the vast, vast majority…</p>
<p>Making statements like that makes you look like a fool to people who understand these concepts. At least make a proper arguement to defend your position. Jyank’s did so.</p>
<p>Read this: <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory</a></p>
<p>lol…
“mmkay: “you guys” obviously did not win this debate, much less outright. If it was that obvious that God doesnt exist than a majority of the world would not believe in Him.”
A majority of the world once also believed the world was flat. They were wrong. Oh let me guess, science was wrong here too right? The world actually is flat?
I think your logic here is pretty stupid.</p>
<p>mmkay: “you guys” obviously did not win this debate, much less outright. If it was that obvious that God doesnt exist than a majority of the world would not believe in Him.</p>
<p>I hate to inform you that the majority of the world is ignorant. Even more so, the majority of Americans are ignorant as evniced by Bush’s election…TWICE may I add. Since you have just attempted to portray us as a select group of ignorant people, I will reassert that those whom have known more about the universe and this world then we could possibly ever imagine- Hawking, Darwin, Spinoza, etc.- did not believe in the existence of god. Many also believed that the earth was the center of the universe and scientits were persecuted for stating otherwise. One of the universal truths, that you evidently have not learned, is not to follow others blindly.</p>
<p>Organized religion has done great things for the world, but that doesnt mean it still is. Yes, while it may have its pluses–scaring people into being good, etc–it still promotes discrimination in so many forms…at least the major religions. and it causes people to blindly believe in something either through fear or appeasement.</p>
<p>“What if I killed someone and then responded with “God instructed me to do so”. Would that be justified? Would that be apart of God’s ultimate plan?”</p>
<p>anyone can say “God instructed me to do so.” just like you can lie and say, “the government made me like this.”</p>
<p>Wow, that is so not true, in reference to mmkay</p>
<p>“What if I killed someone and then responded with “God instructed me to do so”. Would that be justified? Would that be apart of God’s ultimate plan?”</p>
<p>that will get you arrested for sure.</p>
<p>justified, i doubt it. it could be a plan, we will know when it’s judgement day. now, i will have to admit that i’m not a very knowledgable christian, and i don’t intend to persuade anyone with my beliefs. just saying what i know.</p>
<p>science created the nuclear bomb.</p>
<p>not to say that science is a horrible thing that should be outright rejected.</p>
<p>it so is true. whether you see it or not. christianity promotes sexism, homophobia, classism and more. and please dont deny that there are a lot of people who solely believe in religion because they fear hell.</p>
<p>not really - most adults, if presented with balanced arguments for following laws and whatnot, would probably listen and follow them.
then there are the millions in the world who don’t have the time or arent mature/intelligent/interested enough or whatever to actually care about a balanced argument. Religion is for them.
and u cant deny that the majority of the world isnt still like that.
therefore, we still need organized religion. </p>
<p>discrimination is not a product of organized religion, its a product of the human fear of the unknown. ppl wud discriminate against anything/anyone they dont understand. who care if they believe in god or not?</p>
<p>Religion results in millions of deaths and worldwide conflicts. Whats your point…</p>