This is basically what I was touching on with post #103. Being from NJ, I’ve had the Ivies engrained in my head since I was a baby. My parents won’t seem to let go of me saying that I wanted to go to Harvard at age seven…I’m happy that they at least gave me some leeway for undergrad.
I’m raising my kids in either NC or VA, happily away from the ridiculously elitist, prestige-obsessed rat race in the Northeast.
Don’t you think it is unfair to paint 58,100,000 people with such a broad and negative brush?
“I’m raising my kids in NJ or VT away from the ridiculously anti-transgender people in NC”. That would be an ignorant statement.
“I’m raising my kids in NY or NH away from the Klan-dominated hills of VA” would also be an ignorant statement.
Why is yours not one?
I think one reason my kids (who grew up in Michigan) never caught “Ivy fever” is that their cousins had it in spades (and attended Princeton, Brown, and, um, Stanford). As I mentioned earlier, my kids went to pretty good schools (UChicago and RISD), but effectively ruled “prestige” out of their calculus of schools to attend.
I think discussions about prestige often conflate academic prestige and social prestige. There is a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram but there are certainly schools that have one but not the other.
It really feels like this:
A triumph of marketing, and a successful campaign to obfuscate “real” value while promoting intangibles.
Like a Mercedes or a Gulfstream. Create a desire for a product among even those who cannot afford it in order to sell more (or the same amount at higher price) to those who can.
If you can afford (not “make payments on” but really afford) a Mercedes or a Gulfstream, well done you! Enjoy! But never point it out as being better than a Caddy or an Audi, because that’s not the oblige your noblesse demands.
edit: typo
Many of you are over thinking/over analyzing. HYP+MS have established themselves as “the best” for a combination of being around for a long time, producing more Nobel/Pulitzer/… prize winners, Rhode/Marshal… Scholars, other famous alumni, generous FA, great marketing positions etc. So to many they are the most desirable colleges to attend. Does the “phenomenon” take 8 pages to decipher? LOL When it comes to other Ivies, there are plenty who would give up for a full ride or a scholarship in other colleges. That said, the top 20 of US News does still mean something and “polluted” the population
What’s fun is the subtle shift in meaning of “worth.” If “it’s worth it” in terms of career prospects, then surely there’s a dollar value we can use to detect when it suddenly drops below the break even line.
But if “it’s worth it” for intangible reasons, then the financial equation becomes deeply personal, and I cannot tell anyone what the worth is to them - totally their call.
“So to many they are the most desirable colleges to attend.”
You don’t live in the Midwest. These schools are simply not as fetishized here as they were in the Northeast where I grew up. Except for a few pockets, no one blinks twice if a smart kid has no interest in those schools and just goes to Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin. There are plenty of affluent people here who went to those schools - Indiana, too. There’s also the contingent here for whom Notre Dame is the meaning of life. I love me fancy schmancy schools - I do - and I sent one kid to a fancy NE LAC - but it just is different.
Temporarily closing thread while repairs take place tomorrow (well, today but…). The snark and personal shots are ridiculously childish, and the comparisons of e.g. WUSTL to USC in 1980 are both off topic and silly. Silly we can live with, it is fun like comparing the Showtime Lakers to the current Warriors team, but not if people are going to get nasty and not when it isn’t about the OP. Go back and read it, I will reopen when the dross has been excavated.
OK, reopening thread. As you can see, about 5 pages worth of posts are gone. This thread was never about Stanford vs. WUSTL in the 80’s, job recruiting at various schools (unless one wants to posit that is a reason for Ivy fever, which none of those posts did), the German PhD model, etc. Perhaps as someone said towards the end, it doesn’t take 8 pages to answer the OP, but that doesn’t excuse such completely off topic posts. Sigh Now I am tired. One more thing: If you are going to inquire of another member anything personal and/or off topic, such as where they went to high school in St. Louis, please make that a PM.
Ivy or other highly selective schools do offer things that second or third tier schools don’t.
If it’s worth the money, stress and effort? That’s diffrent for diffrent people. If you are getting huge financial aid then heck yeah. If you can afford comfortably then without a doubt. If trying to get in is too stressful for you or tuition is going to load you with debt then it’s questionable.
@blossom I agree with every word you said. I wanna get into a top university because strangely enough I love learning. Everyone judges me when I choose to order textbooks to read for fun and choose to spend time studying each night. I want to be surrounded by a group of students that are more like me. These schools will help me get the best job and be the happiest. I don’t care if you al think I am just a ignorant child, but it’s a goal that keeps me going. I want to leave this group of people and study with people who learn because they love too.
That pretty much describes the rest of the country outside of the northeast and California. The Big 10 flagship schools are what 90 percent of the population aspire to, and it is a much healthier situation than what happens in the Northeast.
@Jt128a You might want to start a thread here on the Parents Forum asking for suggestions about schools where you could find the atmosphere you’re looking for. I think you could get some interesting ideas.
"I wanna get into a top university because strangely enough I love learning. " - anybody who is getting into ANY college “strangely enough love learning”. Also it is strangely enough to read that some are feeling so superior that they assume that others who are attending college that is not labeled the “top university”, is there for drinking and partying and not for learning. Isn’t it reflecting the narrow thinking and very limited vision and ability to analyze? Not a good idea to go thru life with such attitude at all…
I’d agree with that in a sense. People (employers, grad schools,whatever) know how hard it is to get into those schools and assume you are a top student if you graduated from one.
Miami of OH, just for example, certainly has top students but it also has lots of not-top students so the automatic assumption isn’t there. Those students have to say “I graduated with a rigorous course load and high grades” or whatever to further qualify their “top student” status.
I think it’s s little naive to assume “employers” are one big monolith who have all memorized the USNWR rankings. Obviously some employers care and some don’t. Moreover, some employers who care will just group schools into “good” and “not as good”, instead of sweating the fine points between Duke and Dartmouth. And many employers are just looking for “good enough” and really have no desire to staff their businesses with only or mostly elite grads.
Are you assuming employers are a monolith or are you assuming I “naively” think they are, @Pizzagirl ?
Of course employers have different priorities and of course their thoughts about college vary. It really should go without saying for those who aren’t thinking so literally.
What I quoted said “Ivy or other highly selective schools” so obviously both Duke and Dartmouth would be included.
Reading comprehension, SMH.
In some circumstances, this could be a disadvantage (just as a PhD can sometimes be a disadvantage, but a master’s degree almost never is). If you find yourself in a position where you’re applying for a not-especially prestigious job – say, because you’re changing careers or because you’re re-entering the workforce after a period as a stay-at-home parent or a caregiver for an elderly person – having a Harvard/Yale/Princeton diploma or a doctorate could lead prospective employers to be reluctant to hire you because they feel you won’t stay at the job.
I’ve been in the position of re-entering the workforce after time spent doing other things. I graduated from a college one step down from Harvard and its competitors, and I have a master’s degree. Neither has ever counted against me. But I know people with more prestigious credentials who have had difficulty finding jobs for which they are seemingly (though not actually) overqualified.
@Marian I’ve definitely experienced this. The elite degree, however, opens more doors, than not.