My son is looking at track programs in the Ivy League which seems to be dominated currently by Princeton and Cornell. Any feedback on which Ivies might provide the best experience, especially with regard to middle distance running?
Yes, Princeton and Cornell have gone 1- 2 in mens track for almost a decade now. But there are pockets of excellence in different events across the Ivy League - Harvard brought on a 1:48 800m guy for the class of 2019. I think your son will have the coaching and training to succeed at any Ivy school.
If you look ‘big picture’, he’ll probably be hanging up his spikes in a few years. What college is going to best prepare him for life after track?
…and this just in tonight, Nathan Taylor head coach at Cornell has stepped down
http://hepstrack.com/blog/2015/07/07/coach-taylor-steps-down-at-cornell/
Thanks. My lad is 1.50 high school runner, and he’s team focused that’s to say he’d like to run in 4x800 and have the team have a chance. Any thoughts there?
He’s fast enough to be heavily recruited. Top 5 or 10 in country. Pick based on academics and life goals not track
It’s hard to say. Princeton took 3rd in the 4x800 at Heps with 3 freshmen. Harvard took 4th with 2 freshmen and is bringing on, among others, Myles Marshall “The 800m specialist with a personal record of 1:48.43 is a two-time Texas State Champion, New Balance Nationals All-American, USATF Junior Nationals runner-up, IAAF World Juniors qualifier and, oh yeah, the reigning World Youth Olympic Games champion.” (from Flotrack)
I know for a top athlete like your son, the world revolves around T&F but as I mentioned before, that all ends. IMO he’s going to be better off finding the best fit academically. Hopefully he’ll get a good feel for the schools on official visits this fall.
Very helpful thanks.
You’d think Harvard with its brand and capacity to recruit would be slugging it out with Cornell and Princeton, there must be more to the recruiting process than meets the eye. I see Colombia has the 4 x 800 at Heps with Brown who apparently have a very good coach.
That’s at Penn relays also re Columbia. Harvard missed those recruits it seems.
I agree with picking a school first, especially in a sport like track where top performers can thrive at a number of different places (though obviously that’s easier at a place with top coaching, teammates, facilities, etc.)
Columbia and Cornell have both changed coaches in the last year, and it seems like assistant coaches are constantly churning everywhere, so I wouldn’t personally give a lot of weight to who the coach is at the time of recruiting.
In my opinion the logical conclusion of a track-first decision would be a top track program like Oregon or USC, so for someone who’s focused on the Ivies it makes sense for track to be important but only one factor.
There’s also the aspect of what is each school looking for this year. For example Harvard brought in five male middle distance runners in the class of 2019 (out of 16 total recruits) including the 1:48.43 runner noted above, so might have other priorities for 2020 such as throwing, where there were no 2019 recruits.
http://gocrimson.com/sports/track/2014-15/releases/201507023xsg08
Very helpful thanks.
Can I ask one more question. Yale seems to struggle some recruiting fewer student athletes overall as I understand it. If the choice were Cornell, Dartmouth or Yale (the weakest team of late) for example how would you see that?
I think it’s a little different comparison for overall schools versus track. For men’s track right now Cornell is the best of those three, with Dartmouth in the middle and Yale the least strong. In terms of points at the Heps, the gap between Cornell and Dartmouth/Yale is large and the gap between Dartmouth and Yale is relatively modest.
When you look at cross-admit data (for all admits, not just athletes) though around 90% choose Yale over Cornell or Dartmouth. The link below is one data source on this and Parchment shows similar data. That’s not saying Yale is best for everyone, just that most people tend to choose Yale of that set of schools.
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/17/weekinreview/20060917_LEONHARDT_CHART.html
Academic fit plays a big role in Ivy recruiting. It gets lost in the hoopla over kids who get accepted to all the Ivys, but they are all really different academic niches. I’m not talking about which school is better, but rather, different schools have very different foci.
Can I ask one more thing.
Likely letters these can be sent anytime prior to October 31st each year? I ask as my son won’t have his SAT subject test scores (he should do fine) till mid-October.
Likely letters can go out after Nov. 1 too, but obviously for someone applying EA or ED the LL is more useful if you have it in hand before the Nov. 1 deadline. If the school requires SAT IIs then I believe admissions will have to have those scores in hand (along with the completed application) before they issue a letter.
So you could have the application in with just the SAT subject tests to come; and still resolve matters so to speak by Nov 1 of the subject test results were good and arrived by say October 20. Is that about right?
I think so but believe it depends on how good the academic data other than SAT IIs are, assuming the school requires SAT IIs. In order to issue invitations for official visits, Ivy coaches will need enough academic data for admissions to feel like the student is in the ballpark. If grades, SATs and/or ACTs, and AP test results are all strong, then admissions may not worry too much about not having SAT IIs until the end. The coaches can obviously tell you specifically how things work at their schools.
Schools that require the SAT2 tests for admission will need the SAT2 results, and the remainder of a complete application, before issuing a likely letter. Some schools and sports apparently require candidates for a likely letter to submit an ED or EA application as a predicate to support for a likely letter, others do not. The timing of issuance of a likely letter after the complete application is filed will depend entirely on what the particular school’s process of review is (committee, director of admission, etc), how often that occurs, and where the particular sport “stands in line” for review.
Schools can get a formal pre read done after July 1 that I believe serves the purpose outlined by @bluewater2015 and, at least at some schools for some sports serves as the required predicate before extending an official offer of support.
One other point is that SAT II tests are now recommended but not required at HYP (and maybe others of the Ivies). I assume that most applicants would still be well advised to take them . . . 'recommended" tends to mean “required” in practice for those who want to get in to these schools . . . but strictly speaking they’re optional at some of the Ivies anyway.
SAT2s are required at Princeton, even with the ACT with writing, or at least that was the case last year. There was a thread on here a couple months ago, and if I recollect correctly 3 or 4 ivies required the SAT2s. I think in the recruiting context, given that most kids are recruited by multiple schools it is prudent to go ahead and take the SAT2s.