<p>Many experts say that the “elite” colleges produce successful graduates because it is WHO they are teaching, not WHAT they are teaching.
In other words, the students sitting in Ivy classrooms would be successful no matter where they went to college, because of the outstanding personal qualities they possessed before entering college (intelligence, motivation, character, etc.)</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<p>Great question. I think it is a combination of “who” and “how” and “what” and “taught by who”.</p>
<p>Its the “club” factor. Also there are alot of losers in the Ivy league you just dont hear about it- they spend their money on public relations of the brand. I have met alot of kids and I wonder ‘What was the admissions office thinking when they let them in’
Wasnt there a study that more CEO’s are B and C students NOT from Ivy League?</p>
<p>Way more who than what. It’s not like basic economics and chemistry courses at Princeton have hugely different content than what is being taught at Rutgers. The concept of B and C student CEOs can have more to do with personality and priorities than actual intelligence and a higher % of the A students can/do choose to into academia instead.</p>
<p>I think the “who” is very important The Ivies select smart, highly self-motivated, creative, independent students – and lots of those students happen to be well off and come from very educated, connected homes. The ones that don’t come from educated, connected homes, are far, far above the rest of the population when it comes to being bright, assertive, personable, etc. or they wouldn’t have made it to Ivies.</p>
<p>Then, when you get such students together in a place with excellent academic resources and other services, a group of outstanding peers to learn from and later to network with, a network of highly successful alum as well as having gone to a college that impresses many people – they have optimal opportunities to be successful in whatever their chosen fields are.</p>
<p>" Wasnt there a study that more CEO’s are B and C students NOT from Ivy League?"</p>
<p>I would easily expect this as the Ivies compose approx. 0.0026% of US colleges.</p>
<p>Northstar, it’s not just that, but a lot of times its both WHO as in the students being highly ambitious, organized, and competitive, and also the WHO as in the professors other lecturers brought in to teach. Especially at schools where top professors in their fields teach undergraduates all the time like at Princeton, Yale, Columbia and others, professors really go out of their way to let students know about their own experiences and how they achieved their success. </p>
<p>It is because the students are so creative and highly-motivated that professors are genuinely interested in what undergraduates have to say, and this reciprocal relationship provides professors with potential proteges and colleagues. It is great that professors feel that undergraduates at Ivies and other top schools are more than worthy of their investment of time and attention. The system has proven over the years to pay back with interest.</p>
<p>The education a bright, ambitious student would get (from the faculty would not differ greatly from attending any of the top 60-70 (maybe even a 100) universities/LACs.</p>
<p>"It is because the students are so creative and highly-motivated that professors are genuinely interested in what undergraduates have to say, and this reciprocal relationship provides professors with potential proteges and colleagues. "</p>
<p>Actually, I think that professors at colleges that take more pride in being teaching institutions (and some of these colleges are community colleges and third tier colleges) are much more likely to be extremely interested in students’ thoughts because those professors are more likely to be faculty members because they like to expand young people’s minds, not because they like to do research.</p>
<p>If a professor is hobnobbing with the president, Cabinet officials, etc., as is the case with many Ivy professors, a student’s thoughts may pale in comparison to those of people who are world leaders.</p>
<p>That depends entirely on the professor and his contacts. There are many great professors that are the top profs in their fields, but are not particularly famous or keen on hobnobbing. This is often true with professors in the natural sciences (I’m an ecology major).</p>
<p>Definitely who (as in students) are going through those institutions. I firmly believe that the success of graduates of prestigious institutions is 100% tied to the types of students the schools get to cherry pick from.</p>
<p>Putting it into the grad/professional school paradigm - the things that get one into Harvard or the other Ivies and elite schools, are the exact same things that get one into medical, law, or graduate school. Intelligence, standardized test taking ability, dedication, ambition, time management, etc.</p>
<p>As for the WHO in teaching - I firmly believe that being a great TEACHER is very different than a great RESEARCHER. What good is it to have a Nobel Prize winner if they can’t explain anything to you? Unfortunately research and being a great mind in your field are more likely to get you an appointment at a renowned college or university. I don’t think any one school has the market cornered on great teachers.</p>
<p>If I were a professor with a passion for teaching, it would always a plus to know that the students you are teaching will engage at the highest level and with the highest ambition to take as much as possible from my lecture.</p>
<p>I believe there are three, measurable components that tend to be highly related to the quality of education: student quality, faculty quality, and class size. You will not get as good an educational experience in a small class of dullards taught by a brilliant professor as you will in a small class of brilliant students taught by a brilliant professor. If you are in an introductory level lecture class of 800 students, the fact that your teacher won a Nobel Prize is of no importance whatsoever, as his special expertise is wasted in an introductory class and there will be few opportunities to even talk to him. </p>
<p>What most elite schools offer is, essentially, that combination of brilliant students, brilliant teachers, and mostly small class size. This does not mean that every single class will be wonderful. As an undergrad, I had professors who were simply awful, and the fact that the students around me in a small class were smart was not very useful. But, overall, put those three items together and good things will happen more often than not.</p>