James Madison University -- Dangerous for Students

Parents Forum
21

<p>This is not legal advice…</p>

<p>“If I were one of those kids, I would just appeal on the basis of not having Miranda rights read and instantly win my lawsuit, no?”</p>

<p>No. The Miranda right only comes into play if/when you are taken into custody. If you are given a summons or citation as opposed to a physical arrest, Miranda doesn’t come into play. The fact that a cop is accusing you on the street and writing up a citation does not mean that you’re in custody. </p>

<p>Furthermore, if you’re arrested and don’t hear the Miranda rights, that doesn’t make the arrest invalid. It would only, at most, make your incriminating statements following the arrest inadmissible in court. If you were arrested for being a minor in possession, they probably don’t need your later incriminating statements to convict you – they will have the officer’s testimony that you were holding an open container that smelled of alcohol, that you were being loud and disorderly, etc.</p>

<p>“Again, the students don’t know THEY MUST OBJECT to the use of this illegally obtained evidence.”</p>

<p>Most non-lawyers don’t know how to do a lawyer’s job. Same goes for doctors, plumbers, and refrigerator repairmen. If you’re in trouble, exercise your 6th Amendment right to hire the counsel of your choice. If you were too poor to hire an attorney, and the state didn’t provide one because it was a misdemeanor charge, then you have my sympathy. Otherwise, going in front of a judge without a lawyer was a very foolish mistake.</p>

22

<p>no axe to grind here, but this does happen at JMU, one of the kids from local HS experienced this his freshman year.
His dad told me what happened, didn’t know it was as involved and complicated as this, but they were quite upset over the whole thing and what the kid went thru.</p>

23

<p>A friend of mine was once arrested for having “open alcohol” because he was walking around with a styrofoam cup with the STAIN of a blueberry daiquiri in it. He had finished the drink but didn’t want to litter. He was handcuffed and spent hours in jail. BTW he was never charged with public intoxication and never given a breathalyser - it was the stupid CUP! </p>

<p>Idiotic, but cops can decide to do many things if they wish. Here is DC, they famously rounded up protesters, ordered them to disburse, didn’t let them disburse, and then arrested them for not obeying a police order. The protesters were handcuffed and held on buses for more than 24 hours (to keep them from causing trouble at the World Bank meetings). Years later, the taxpayers of DC had to pay millions to this large group of people, and the chief of police had to write a public apology that was printed in all the local newspaper. I have it saved.</p>

<p>In the case of my friend, his father is a writer, and wrote a dips*it cop from a certain jurisdiction in CA into his next few novels.</p>

24

<p>I am very pleased that there is a substantial amount of interest in what I have said. I don’t mind being misunderstood or called stupid or dishonest or ill-willed. At times I have been every one of those things. We all have been at various times. But there are occasions when we are good and truthful. You must be the judge.</p>

<p>James Madison spoke about freedom of the press. He recognized that it had the potential to falsely portray issues, people and institutions. But he saw it as absolutely necessary for the protecting the rights of people from usurpation by those in authority.</p>

<p>The web is similar to the early years of the press. It is even more valuable because the very weak can be heard. In blogs, you will learn about problems & solutions that you would never otherwise learn about. You hear from criminals, terrorists, geniuses, fools, saints & sinners. It’s great! OK. Back to the subject!</p>

<p>Have you ever been caught in a speed trap? They are very popular. There are websites which publish their location and there is software that you can install on your GPS that will warn you when you get close to one. Usually, the traps are on a wide open stretch of road going down hill where the posted speed limit drops from 55 mph to 25 mph, and there is always a cop waiting with his radar on at the bottom of the hill. When you get caught it is expensive! These traps are usually near some small town that wants the money. The trap is a money maker.</p>

<p>Almost everyone speeds every day. I have read blogs by people who have been ticketed. Usually there is someone who says they deserve the ticket that they are a danger to the community. But the truth is that most all of us are guilty of the same. Now it’s good that we get caught and act more cautiously thereafter. We need to keep the lid on speed. But when there is a speed trap, even the most careful drivers are ticketed. Speed traps aren’t good for the community. There are unjust.</p>

<p>The policy for charging underage drinkers at JMU is the same as a speed trap. On a campus most every student drinks – some more than others. When I was in college I never drank at all. True story. At JMU, I would be ticketed for drinking if I was out late and the officer thought I looked like I may have been drinking. This makes big money for the VASAP class providers and helps the budget of the local court. Like a speed trap, the motive is money. Sure, it deters underage drinking. But it also punishes nondrinkers. It’s unjust.</p>

<p>Alcoholic beverages are part of life. Some think it is the drink of the devil. Jesus didn’t think so. Guaranteed, He and the apostles would all have a criminal record if they went to JMU.</p>

<p>Lawyers will not take this case. They know that only an expensive & time consuming appeal process will bring victory. Then they would have to leave town and start a practice in another jurisdiction. That’s the reality.</p>

25

<p>Try the ACLU.</p>

26

<p>If I had a nickle for every thread where I’ve read </p>

<p>“AND MY KID WASN’T EVEN DRINKING!” </p>

<p>…well, I’d have a bunch of nickles.</p>

27

<p>NH33 points out some interesting statisitics. During the month with the highest rate of arrests there were 9 citations for underage drinking. JMU has an undergraduate population of over 17,000 students. Assume that 75% of those are underage, you have at least 12,750 underage. CHammy points out that most kids do drink on all college campuses. For the sake of this analysis let’s assume it’s ony 50% leaving us with 6,375 underage drinkers in any given month. That leaves us with the month with greatest risk of being cited having a .14% chance of being cited for doing something that although common is still technically illegal. Multiply that highe rate by all the time the students are in school and you get a worst case 1.0% citation rate of estimated underage drinkers. I’m not going to do the research, but my guess is that is well within the norm for college campuses. </p>

<p>Speed traps are just that entrapment by changing the rules abrubtly and citing people quickly. Underage drinking has a 21 year warning. If you are going to do it, keep it out of sight. I suspect more than 9 speeders a month are collected at speed traps. I’m sorry your child was unlucky and got cited. It’s frustrating to be one of the 9 caught while thousands get away with it.</p>

<p>I think your efforts would be better utilized by joining the effort to lower the drinking age. I agree that it should be lowered. The majority of college presidents and many high school principals have already communicated with congress and the public their desire to lower the drinking age. A law is a law whether speeding, drinking or bank robbing and they are all enforced. Work to change the laws you don’t like.</p>

28

<p>This is about rights. It is irrelevant if they were actually drinking if there wasn’t sufficient cause for the stop. (The Bill of Rights doesn’t just apply to those who are innocent).</p>

<p>It’s a slam-dunk case if you take it to Federal court.</p>

<p>Now, if I could make it a crime to be verbose…</p>

29

<p>Chammy,
Welcome to Virginia and its draconian underage drinking and DUI laws. I’m not sure this is a JMU issue as much as it is a Virginia issue. In my opinion every teenager in Virginia should know the underage drinking laws cold! I made my daughter read the statutes. She was stunned at the consequences if found guilty!</p>

30

<p>

Do I sense paranoia setting in here about the Judiciary in VA?</p>

<p>CHammy, please get over it. You are somewhere between anger and bargaining and denial. Please move more expeditiously through the rest of the stages…</p>

<p>Any smart non-drinker will know to ask the officer to take him/her to the station for a breathilizer test. Most cops will release you on the spot, unless they are certain that you have been drinking, as they don’t want to spend the time going back to the station (especially if someone blows a 0.00). If the cop continues to write the citation, collect it and proceed immediately to the police station and request a breathalizer test. Note the officer who handles the situation. If s/he denies the request, move onto the ER and get a blood sample taken. </p>

<p>As a person who during my college years as a victim of an unwarranted police search (for drugs - of course nothing found as I’ve never used) of the vehicle I was driving (owned by my parents) where they basically threw the entire contents of the car in the street (including the spare tire), I received a different revenge. My other summer job was at a restaurant where cops ate for a nominal charge. I happened to tell the restaurant owner my story and when I id’d the two cops entering the place, they were asked not to return to the premises by the owner. </p>

<p>I’m sorry that your son now has a record in the state of VA, but there are lots of people who deal with bad situations every day. Time to move on…</p>

31

<p>

That’s the reality?? Don’t know many lawyers, do you? Most of us , who do the kind of work needed here, couldn’t give a rat’s:eek: what the “powers that be” think of us. They ain’t the ones hiring us. This would be great advertising for the folks that do. ;)</p>

<p>I practice in a conservative town and I’ve sued both local hospitals, the local u, a couple of churches, several banks, the largest real estate company, the city, the county, the state, your Aunt Martha, …</p>

<p>Move outta town? Yeah. That’s what we do. Cut and run. lol. You have to understand, not all lawyers are cut from the same cloth. In another time some of us might have briefly considered “pirate” as a career option, except for that whole walking the plank thang. </p>

<p>My advice up-thread stands. Hire a lawyer. I’d suggest hiring one that runs to a fight rather than away. In my 29 years of experience, that’s most of us. ;)</p>

32

<p>You are probably connected to the sick corruption in the District Court that allows over 900 JMU students each year to feed the greed of Districy Court insiders. if so, you would want to dicredit anyone with the initiative to do a small amount of research. DO YOU KNOW THE NAME OF THE DIRECTOR OF ROCKINGHAM/HARRISONBURG ALCOHOL SAFETY ACTION PROGRAM? Look it up! Then look at the cover page of the General District Court of Rockingham County. See any matches? YES!! DOES CONFLICT OF INTEREST COME TO MIND??</p>

33

<p>It is well established in history that the only way to combat an abuse of power is to make the public aware of it. A public post is one way of doing that.</p>

<p>Parents need to be aware that their children are at risk of abuse by police in Harrison burg.</p>

34

<p>“Virginia is for Lawyers” </p>

<p>You don’t sneeze in Virginia without getting a lawyer. If you are driving through and get a speeding ticket, get a lawyer. You need a lawyer there to settle on a home purchase. This is a matter of Virginia law, not JMU policy. Virginia strengthened the penalty for underage drinking in 2008. </p>

<p>My daughter is a student at JMU. I just remembered that one of my good friends from law school is a lawyer specializing in these cases and DUI in Harrisonburg. I am going to get in touch with him. All students in Virginia need to be educated about their rights if approached by a police officer.</p>

35

<p>I don’t understand JMU’s new rules. Kids there are very afraid. I agree it used to be a big party school. But now they did away with the Bus that took kids around at night, and they’ve made kids afraid to go out at night.</p>

<p>I wish they concentrated on more responsible drinking and not out to “get” the kids.</p>

36

<p>

</p>

<p>[Terry</a> v. Ohio](<a href=“John W. TERRY, Petitioner, v. STATE OF OHIO. | Supreme Court | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute”>John W. TERRY, Petitioner, v. STATE OF OHIO. | Supreme Court | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute)</p>

<p>Cops CAN stop you when walking if they feel something is suspicious. The only question is did the cop believe he had sufficient reason. Did the student stumble? Did it smell like alcohol? Did the student emerge from a location of a party? </p>

<p>Game over… </p>

<p>This is similar to sobriety checkpoints/tests which are also legal per SCOTUS.</p>

37

<p>I believe in some states you can be charged with DUI if you are under 21 even if you only had one beer.</p>

38

<p>Charlie—that is correct…I thought most states had that. “Even if you only had one beer” doesn’t matter if you are under 21. You’ve broken the law and then compounded it by getting behind the wheel of a car.</p>

39

<p>

</p>

<p>It’s called ‘Zero Tolerance’. For example, Virginia’s Zero Tolerance law states anyone under 21 caught driving with as little as a 0.02% BAC can face a one year license suspension and either 50 hours of community service or a minimum fine of $500.</p>

40

<p>Who said, “Behind every broken law stands an aggrieved parent?”</p>

<p>Poor towns, poor states, laws, citations, revenue. My D got this in her state, paid it and that was that. I was mad at HER. She, too, claimed it was someone else who had the open container. I was mad at her.</p>