James Madison University -- Dangerous for Students

Parents Forum
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<p>It is ironic that an institution which bears the name of James Madison would deny to its students that which is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights crafted by James Madison. This precious founding document has been respected since 1791. Yet JMU no longer considers it to be worthy of respect or observance. The 5th Admendmant rights of students under the age of 21 are completely disregarded.</p>

<p>At James Madison University (JMU), a police officer may grab any young person under 21 at any time or place; accuse them of having consumed alcohol; and write them a summons. The young person will not be warned about what is happening to him/her – they are not even told that they are being arrested and there is no Miranda warning. He or she is not be tested for alcohol consumption – no breath or urine test. It doesn’t matter if the young person was drinking or not. That person is charged. The General District Court of Rockingham County will prosecute and sentence that individual. This court consistently uphold the officer’s charge.</p>

<p>Each year more than 900 JMU students are charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor, the most serious level of crime below a felony. It is on the same level as assault & battery (Virginia Code § 18.2-57 - Assault and battery). Under the 5th Admendment, citizens are protected from involuntary self incrimination. In all criminal cases, police are reqiired to provide a Miranda warning prior to asking questions aimed at conviction. It doesn’t matter whether an interrogation occurs in a jail or at the scene of a crime, on a busy downtown street, or the middle of an open field: If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must give a Miranda warning if they want to question the suspect and use the suspect’s answers as evidence at trial. JMU police do not do this. They arrest, interrogate and use the young person’s answers as evidence. JMU procedures also violate the “due process” provisions of the 5th Admendment.</p>

<p>The right to “due process” assures that everyone gets treated the same. If due process was being observed, all citizens in the state of Virginia would be arrested, charged and prosequted for public intoxication. Why, because public intoxication is prohibited under Virginia Code § 18.2-388. The process being observed at JMU is that there need be no attempt on the part of law enforcement or the courts to determine if anyone is actually drunk. All that is necessary is that a law exists and a police officer decides to charge someone. Case closed! So if we were all being treated the same, we would all have a criminal record.</p>

<p>Then fine is over $500 with 6 mont suspension of drivers license. If the student pleads guilty, the court in its mercy reduces the fine to $71 but adds a required VASAP class the costs more than $300 along with 50 hours of community service.</p>

<p>Parents who do not want their child to be arbitrarily given a criminal record should not send their children to JMU.</p>

<p>NOTE: Posted: Nov 3, 2005 DURHAM, N.C. — A Durham judge ruled Thursday afternoon that Alcohol Law Enforcement agents violated the rights of eight Duke students who had been cited for underage drinking. District Court Judge Craig Brown ruled in the defense’s favor and said ALE agents should not have been in the house without a warrant and they should have read the students their rights before questioning them.</p>

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<p>If only humans would learn from history. Prohibition in the 20’s only helped the criminal element prosper. Drinking responsibly should be the focus, not creating a desired “taboo.”</p>

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<p>Is this really true? If I were one of those kids, I would just appeal on the basis of not having Miranda rights read and instantly win my lawsuit, no?</p>

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<p>OP - I cannot corroborate your claims. Is there a Web Site with information? The best I could do was the MADD site which says minimum $250 fine for first DUI conviction, and a c<em>ll</em>g<em>pr</em>wl*r site that says police at JMU are reasonable except with regard to parking violations.</p>

<p>[Home[/url</a>]
http://**************.com/james-madison-university/campus-strictness/](<a href=“http://www.maddva.org/]Home[/url”>http://www.maddva.org/)</p>

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<p>Hmmmm, something doesn’t smell right with the OP’s story - new member, 1 post with an axe to grind. Hmmmm</p>

<p>My guess is James Madison at worse may be trying to crack down on underage drinking. if so - kudos to them</p>

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<p>ok… JMU has a reputation as a HUGE party school. People drink there ALL THE TIME. They also drink in public. They have obnoxiously loud parties that do not get broken up by police ever. And they have a “drunk bus”.</p>

<p>I am calling BS on this thread…</p>

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<p>I wonder which rival college CHammy works for? Recruiting must be really cutthroat these days!</p>

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<p>LOL. That’s definitely what I would do. Seriously, if this is happening to…what did you say?..NINE HUNDRED students, believe me, there’s a viable case in there for appeal.</p>

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<p>PS: <3 the reference to open fields. Hester v. United States!</p>

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<p>That’s some ********. I am sure these kids are all underaged drinkers</p>

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<p>My D is a student at JMU and much to my dismay the town drinking policy is very liberal- at least as far as the police are concerned. There seems to be a “don’t step off the curb with an open beer can” rule but that’s the extent of their enforcement. The “rules” were posted prior to the first block party last fall.</p>

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<p>For any young person, being arrested for in public is a humiliating and traumatic experience. At James Madison University, the police arrest first without telling the boy or girl that they are arrested, interrogate without giving a Miranda warning, charge the young person with a crime often without providing a summons. The court then convicts. In all casses there is a record of a CRIMINAL charge. This makes future employment involving any government agency improbable.</p>

<p>What people don’t know is that in court, if you (or your lawyer if you are capable of paying for one) do not OBJECT to the denial of your rights, it is treated as if YOU WILLINGLY WAVED YOUR RIGHTS! These students are kids. They don’t know that. They are taught to respect authority. When a policeman stops them, they cooperate completely. The officer isn’t there to help or protect them, he is there to convict them of a crime so the court can profit. There are two outcomes:</p>

<p>(1) If the student pleads guilty, the court in it’s good will and mercy offers student with NO PRIOR CHARGE of alcohol possession/consumption this deal: ASAP CLASS (alcohol safety action program, $300), 50 hours of community service and court costs of $71.00 in lieu of the conviction. tHE STUDENT does wind up with a criminal record – a record of criminal charge but with no record of conviction. The money adds up to $400. (2) If the student does not plead guilty, any admission of guilt the officer was able to extract during his/her illegal interrogation is used to convict. Again, the students don’t know THEY MUST OBJECT to the use of this illegally obtained evidence. (the court will overrule the Miranda objection. Only a skilled lawyer appealing to a higher court can win this case.) If there is no admission, the word of the officer is taken. There are virtually no instances of a student winning without a lawyer and trial. Do the math: 900 x $400 = $360,000. Not a bad annual take! There are no instances of warning by an officer – zero. Here is the URL for the JMU Police arrest record:
[Index</a> of /pubsafety/CrimeReports/2009](<a href=“http://www.jmu.edu/pubsafety/CrimeReports/2009/]Index”>http://www.jmu.edu/pubsafety/CrimeReports/2009/)</p>

<p>In the ASAP class, the student can be called in at any time and tested for alcohol consumption. They get a call at 2:00 a.m and they have to show up, or they go to jail. They can be forced to attend AA Meetings and a variety of other drug rehab programs. These are young people, many of whom have never even had a ticket. They are forced to spend time with hardened drug offenders. They don’t “finish” the ASAP class until the instructor says they have finished. All of this is without official review.</p>

<p>An unexpectedly large percentage of the persons charged with underage possession/consumption are attractive young ladies. I wonder why? I wonder what questions the officer asks an attractive young lady in the privacy of his squad car. She is terified. ANY PARENT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED! Yet the administration at JMU doesn’t care. THEY DON’T CARE. THEY DON’T HAVE TO BECAUSE NOBODY WAS LOOKING. NOBODY KNEW! That has changed!</p>

<p>Make the admissions officials aware that you know that they are allowing the Bill of Rights to be trampled. Don’t send your son or daughter to JMU where they can be arbitrarily given a criminal record. Many of the young men and women WERE NOT DRINKING. THEY WERE CHARGED AND PROSECUTED ANYWAY!</p>

<p>I am a parent. My child is not a JMU student. He had the misfortune of visiting JMU. HE WAS NOT DRINKING. iT DISN’T MATTER. He was charged, convicted without evidence and now has acriminal record. He never even had a traffic ticket. He played soccer for 10 years and never even got carded. His crime was being a young person present near JMU.</p>

<p>Doubt what I’m saying? Here is the URL for the court. Check it out:
[Harrisonburg/Rockingham</a> General District Court](<a href=“http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/gd/Harrisonburg~Rockingham/home.html]Harrisonburg/Rockingham”>Harrisonburg/Rockingham General District Court)</p>

<p>PARENTS, DO NOT SEND YOUR KIDS TO JMU UNTIL THE ADMINISTRATION THERE ADDRESSES THIS ISSUE. THEY ARE TRAMPLING JAMES MADISON’S BILL OF RIGHTS.</p>

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<p>I live in close proximity to JMU. hayze, I’m with you. The town drinking policy has indeed been very liberal. There’s an attorney in town who hands out cards where on the back it states “I am represented by attorney X - do not question me without my lawyer present.” </p>

<p>To say that JMU is unconcerned about student conduct and police intervention is absolutely ludicrous. JMU is concerned with underage drinking, excessive drinking, and improving town/gown relations. The University and HPD work together prior to block parties and the like to ensure that partiers have a clear understanding of the rules (such as don’t step off the curb- open container violation). </p>

<p>If you had statistics to back up some of these assertions I would be inclined to listen. But in my experience working at a local criminal attorney’s office, 99% of the kids weren’t drinking - until their breathalyzer results were provided. </p>

<p>Oh wait. I bet they have a special breathalyzer for JMU students and young people too.</p>

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There is a whole profession of folks who do this for a living. Hire one.</p>

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<p>To the OP…</p>

<p>I feel for you in that your son is in a very challenging situation and I am sure it is unnerving and upsetting. </p>

<p>However, I don’t really respect starting an account and first post on CC just to trash JMU and to tell folks not to go there and how bad it is. You come across as having an ax to grind (even though I realize you are upset at what happened to your son). That doesn’t mean the entire college is not worth attending. This could have happened at many schools. </p>

<p>Wanna fight back if you feel this was unjust? The way to fight back is not to get onto a public message board and tell people to not attend JMU. The way to fight back is legally and to hire a lawyer if you feel your son was handled in an unjust manner or in any case, to defend him. </p>

<p>I think you would get more sympathy and advice if you posted a post explaining the trouble your son found himself in and what could be done about it, rather than posted that JMU “stinks”.</p>

<p>(add to the fact that now you say your son isn’t even a student at JMU and so you don’t know the school well enough to tell people not to attend…you only know that your son was arrested on that campus and it really is about THAT and not about JMU as a college worthy of attendance)</p>

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<p>OK, I went here <a href=“http://www.jmu.edu/pubsafety/CrimeReports/2009/April.shtml[/url]”>http://www.jmu.edu/pubsafety/CrimeReports/2009/April.shtml&lt;/a&gt; and picked April, which is the month with the greatest number of arrests/citations. I count nine (9) underaged drinking and/or underaged possession arrests/citations. There are many more Drunk in Public cases (27 by my count). The majority of police actions were for larceny and property damage. Oh, and there were 21 false fire alarm cases.</p>

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<p>Kittens are cute. Who’s with me?</p>

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<p>In Soviet Harrisonburg, Kittens get cited!</p>

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<p>A kitten is a photogenic porcupine.</p>

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<p>Und also at Harfard, from vat I hear.</p>