By “hidden value” is he mean these schools are a good value or is he using it more to mean “hidden gem”. Many of these schools, such as Elon, Bentley, and Denison only give merit $$ to the top students and they are expensive.
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Part of what Jeff is suggesting is that by aiming “low” in terms of selectivity, applicants are in a better position to get a good financial package. So, yes, a top student could get a merit scholarship at the schools you mention rather than pay sticker price at a bigger name school.
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Agree with this. The random element just means more work for kids to research an allegedly “curated” group of schools, only to discover that the curation is haphazard. Rutgers and Spelman are like each other how exactly? These categories seem crazy to me.
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Hmm, I can imagine a nice girl from NJ who is 100% sure her “dream school” is Barnard, but who would do well to consider Rutgers and Spelman in addition (or instead.)
Same way Columbia and Dartmouth are in the same group 
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Sure. And Smith and Mt Holyoke and Agnes Scott and Wheaton….
Positing that there are zero young women in NJ who need to be told that Rutgers is a university. And very few of those young women who think that the Rutgers Experience is at all similar to Barnard.
I am a HUGE Rutgers fan, btw. So this is no diss of Rutgers. Just that having these random universities show up on these lists as if there’s some deep game of “one of these things is just like other” strikes me as not helpful for HS kids.
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The list printed here taken from Selingo’s book. In the book, every college comes with a comment. So, the list above is out of context as presented here. My apologies to the author.
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They used to use the terminology of 4 University Centers - Buffalo, Binghamton, Albany, Stony Brook. They have had funding priority this century, and all moved up to D1 sports. All have good USNWR rankings, but that has not helped them draw OOS students. Neither did being the #1 North Regional school help TCNJ draw OOS. Non-flagships are frequently overlooked.
Although if you go to the Binghamton page here, there are very active OOS groups hoping to get their kids into Binghamton for nursing, business, and engineering. The people who know, know.
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I have not read the book, but we have 2 kids in college at 2 of the schools on the list - one ‘hidden value’ and one ‘large leader’ and both are having amazing experiences, so maybe he’s onto something?
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Asheville is also on Fiske’s short list of 4-5 schools, forget what they call it.
I’m stealing your idea!
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I have also have kids at two of the “hidden value” schools, and like Islandmama1, both are having incredible experiences. Both were admitted to higher ranked schools, but went with the school they saw as the best fit, and receiving merit money was certainly an added bonus.
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But to another poster’s point, there may be many on the west coast who need to hear it. It is interesting to me how some schools that are pretty popular on CC (like Pitt) have tiny numbers of people from our Bay Area high school applying. Even a relatively well known college like UIUC has some people here saying “what does that stand for”? For context, less than 10 a year applying to these out of a senior class of around 300, of which something like 90% go on to 4 year colleges. Some other schools have 80+ a year applying.
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I agree with you in theory– more knowledge about more schools is better for everyone.
But is it realistic to assume that a kid in California who has a wide range of public, in-state options, really needs to know that New Jersey has a flagship university? Can’t one assume that the kids in CA who are ready to attend and pay for their “not instate” public option already know that there are 49 states NOT California- and each has a public university system which can be easily researched online???
Is New Jersey that obscure?
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In short, judging from the applications and in terms of publics, yes. There are more applications to Princeton than Rutgers. There are a lot of applications to the more well known (locally) out of state schools (think Oregon, Boulder, Arizona) that are targets/likelies/safeties, so it’s not just a case of rather go to instate public. Obviously those are also easier to get to than Rutgers, but there are plenty of applications to the more well known privates on the east coast, so it’s not just that. And it’s not just private vs public - another example is that the east coast LACs are not very well known here either apparently (though those would be a different “list” than this one). I do think word of mouth has a lot to do with which schools get on the radar. No one who got into Rutgers went, so no one at the high school (recent at least) knows anyone who went there. (All the students who got into Princeton decided to go there, by the way. 20% admit rate from our school for that, vs 90% for the small sample that is Rutgers.)
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From CA, the 5 most attended states, outside of CA, per the Sac Bee in 2020 are Arizona, Oregon, Wash, NY and Mass.
it makes sense from a cost and prestige POV, if you are attending a public, you by and large are not traveling across the country when you have ample subs where you are. And most kids nationally stay home - even top performers. Many kids go in state period - most are not rabid consumers of rank or whatever else like on the CC .
we focus on rank here but the average kid isn’t saying, my Poli Sci degree is better at Penn State or UMD than SDDU or UC wherever or Oregon or ASU.
The elite privates are different - they can’t be replicated everywhere. NY and Mass both have many elites so it makes sense they’re a top 5 but I’m sure it’s not for SUNY or UMASS.
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From a cost and prestige perspective, if those are your only criteria, as one example Pitt makes more sense than Boulder - a fair bit higher in the rankings and a bit lower cost (especially cumulative over 4 years). Both are direct flights. Our high school has had nearly ten times the amount of people apply to Boulder than Pitt. Why don’t more people apply to Pitt? Because nobody talks about it. By contrast everyone knows somebody at Boulder who loves it.
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And you’re in the West Coast - and Denver is considered “West”-ish and if you’re in a wealthy area, they’ve got skiiers - and enough said!! But those kids know Colorado.
Let’s be honest - on CC, we see Pitt as a powerhouse. In real life, Pitt and CU are subs in most areas. Too many are like - this is 60 and this is 150. Pitt, CU, Alabama, Oklahoma, Oregon, Delaware, Rutgers, Ohio State, Tennessee, etc - forget what US News says. The reality in life is that these schools are similar - not in environment, etc. but in reality of how they’re seen by most in the real world that don’t obsess.
But too many on this website and the few that come here - obsess based on a magazine.
Edit - to your next post - I’m not moving the goalpost. Most apply regionally or locally. Most aren’t looking to go 3K miles unless it’s elite. I don’t think it’s a lack of awareness. I think it’s a comfort of being closer to home. Not everyone knows Rutgers but everyone knows UMD or Penn State or Ohio State - but they’re farther. Many Californians have spent time in Colorado - that’s a comfort thing.
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Yeah, you’re moving the goalposts here. I addressed your stated “reasons”. The fact that one is “west” and one isn’t just proves the point being made - that many people are simply not aware of other alternatives and that is why a list like this is helpful.
And edit to your edit, can you stop with the back and forth? You stated cost and prestige. I addressed those issues. Done with this conversation.
What Pitt has going for it is it’s a fabulous safety for a high stats kid because they offer rolling admission. They are in a great small city, are strong in health care fields and engineering. They still offer some merit and offer guaranteed pathways to masters degrees. There is a lot to like!
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