Of course, many of them get overtime pay beyond 40 hours per week.
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And many of them do not.
Ask your local medical resident serving in an ER what his or her hourly pay is….
But you’re bringing up niche fields that are a tiny % of the population.
We can all agree to disagree - it was a generalist statement.
And @ucbalumnus - perhaps you aren’t wrong - i don’t know - but it’s a vastly different era - technology, benefits, and otherwise.
I’m not griping - it keeps me employed that I bust tail. I’m just noting - the inmates have taken over the asylum 
I’m a member of an older generation, but the older I get, the more I appreciate having a reasonable work life balance and the more important I think that balance is to my family’s health and well-being as well as my own. I am definitely willing to have my nose to the grindstone and work long hours doing work that I actively enjoy and (by my definition) makes a positive contribution. If I didn’t value and enjoy the work itself, I would not stay in a job that demanded working excessive hours or unpleasant working conditions unless I had no choice and no other opportunities presented themselves.
Obviously the usual caveats apply about making enough money to sustain oneself and meet one’s responsibilities. But overall, I agree with @Leigh22, there is nothing infantile or lazy about prioritizing work-life balance or choosing not to make work your identity (though in my case, my identity is actually tied up with my vocation). Of my two oldest, I suspect one will end up more like me (prioritizing fulfilling work + balance) while based on the other’s grueling summer internships, I think the other will prioritize money and rapid career advancement over work/life balance. In fact that one (D22) has already signed a contract for post-graduation next June. The job sounds dull and tiresome to me, but I think she is happy that it will afford her the lifestyle she wants in an expensive city. I’m not sure that she’ll love the work, but hopefully she won’t hate it.
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OK, then ask your local 4th grade language arts teacher (not a niche field by ANY measurement- any K-12 teacher in any discipline) what his or her hourly pay is once all the extras are factored in.
Teachers in my district do not get overtime for evening calls with guidance counselors, social workers. They do not get overtime for any of their admin or compliance functions- whether as mandatory reporters for abuse, meetings with the special ed or interventions teams, etc. There is a modest payment for time spent supervising an extra-curricular which is baked in to their salary, but time spent cleaning/outfitting their classrooms, meeting with parents or law enforcement, buying and lugging in the tissues and hand sanitizer needed for cough and cold season but which are never available for the classrooms- ask a teacher how much overtime he or she is getting.
These are folks with a Master’s degree- working long days, much of it uncompensated. Surely you know some teachers? In their 20’s perhaps?
So now we now- doctors and teachers aren’t shunning extra work for better “work life” balance. Anyone else out there?
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Great article - I feel like every time someone comes on for CS we should post it.
Obviously, many truly want to do CS but I believe many do it for the career aspect and not desire. It’s those who should read this.
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Medical residents are small in number and not representative of the professions you mentioned, or the labor market in general. Even for medical residents, there have been (not very successful) attempts to limit work hours.
A labor market where employees in general should be grateful of work hours similar to medical residents seems like a very unpleasant one.
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But not from a secondary/tertiary source at an untrustworthy “news” site.
Leading Computer Science Professor: Students Are Struggling to Get Jobs - Business Insider includes a YouTube link to the NOVA podcast that is apparently the main primary source, as well as apparently some follow up between the professor and the reporting site (which is not great, but better than the previously linked one).
But also note that those who do CS but are not that good and interested in it may not be that successful even in good labor markets in the field.
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We’ve seen many stories like this and anecdotes on this website too.
Where there’s smoke……
It doesn’t mean people shouldn’t major in CS. People should major in what they love. That’s the part I think is missing.
Lot of people are good at and interested in multiple subjects. It may not be surprising that some choose between them based on career prospects. Of course, not all high school seniors and those advising them have accurate perceptions of career prospects, and career prospects can change between the time that they enter college (or whatever other post-high-school education they need) and when they are ready to enter the labor force.
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The trope that genZ is lazy always fascinates me. We’ve done this type of discussion before. 14 years ago:
And this one from 31 years ago about our own GenX.
I can only imagine the articles 10 years from now talking about GenZ.
PS, always loved the movie Slacker. And Reality Bites gets to it as well.
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I don’t understand the point you are making.
Given the number of applicants to med school every year, this does not seem to be a profession in danger of running out of young people who are willing to work the hours that young physicians work. So you push back- this is a niche profession. OK. What about law enforcement, teaching, the legal profession (prosecutors, public interest lawyers of all kinds, public defenders– they all work brutal hours with no overtime, in addition to law firm employees who have billable hours to meet)– are we running out of young people eager to take those jobs?
I get it- you think I’m describing a small minority of young people willing to work very long hours- many times, uncompensated. I think that folks on this thread are the ones describing a small minority. And sure- work/life balance is the most important thing for those people. Which I respect. But then you can’t join the chorus of “there are no jobs out there”. The chorus needs to be a more modulated one- “there are no jobs out there that will allow me the lifestyle that I want”.
And with the labor market in decline- across many sectors simultaneously- this may not be a terribly viable POV long term. I get it- young people want the freedom to take a yoga class, walk the dog, take off two weeks to hike the Appalachian trail when it’s not crowded, work from home when they want to. OK. Then reconcile that with a diminishing pool of jobs- and then realize that something’s got to give.
I counsel young people who have “failed to launch” in my spare time. There are no commonalities among their desired professions, college major, etc. But a BIG commonality is inflexibility. Sometimes they refuse to relocate. That’s not helpful when you’re young and your only experience is an internship or two. Sometimes they will only work from home- or go to the office once a month or so. Sometimes they WILL relocate- but only to Austin, Boston, DC or Chicago. Dream job materializes in Dayton OH? No thanks.
If you are trying to help your own young ‘un launch, staying flexible is the way to go. And that might mean giving more hours than you want, working longer than you’d prefer, having to do the facetime business which you thought went out of style in 2010. Free advice- take it or leave it.
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Agreed. I don’t think its laziness. In fact I think a lot of the kids these days crave a reasonable work-life balance, and work that could have a net positive impact on the world. I know kids who turned down offers from Palantir and Anduril because they fundamentally disagree with how these companies are run. I also know someone who reneged Citadel because he didn’t believe in the value of that industry and instead decided to pursue his passion for Math via grad school.
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Such great news! Congratulations! It’s crazy how the wins of our kids feel so much better sometimes than our own. Best of luck to him.
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During the time when jobs were scarce and potential employees could pick and choose from great opportunities, some employers had to offer benefits to lure and retain them. In Silicon Valley, they had to ultimately establish a “no poaching” guideline so that companies didn’t keep stealing from each other. But companies would seem to continue to outdo each other with benefits, resources, programs, activities, flexible, work schedules, etc. So in some cases, it became a benchmark to measure against. When the medical software company “epic” was started (by a female) outside of Madison Wisconsin, it was described as “Googlesque” in its campus, layout, programs and benefits, and attention to work life balance needs.
With a good work- life balance, in many cases, companies can retain employees, particularly, likely, female employees, so that they don’t lose them and have them re-enter the workforce down the road. I personally think this is a good thing. But to think that the younger generation now is “lazier“ I think is misguided and misunderstood. They may just have their priorities balanced in a different way. Also, most companies no longer offer great retention resources like pensions, etc. so there may be less incentive to stay with one company if the benefits don’t outweigh the challenges. All food for thought.
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I put an article but told it was copyrighted so will try to summarize:
- Ford CEO says America first policies, even if well intentioned, highlight we have skilled trade labor shortage (I was thinking, maybe some of these kids would be better off as skilled labor). He said we need more training for the essential economy.
- He said success in the US for Ford will mean the need for more techs and other builders - so the policies aren’t helping - but will cause inflation, work delays.
- He said Trump has created cost and chaos through tariffs. I can tell you my dealers say exactly this and they worry.
- Says federal spending on R&D is at a low point of the GDP since 1953.
- States US has a 600K worker shortage in manufacturing and 500k in construction - so perhaps there are jobs.
Bottom line - our economic policies, even bringing growth here, will create even bigger gaps - as we don’t have enough skilled and manual labor.
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Don’t know the level of role but people might look at Stellantis (non-STEM).
Stellantis is hiring more than 200 people to bolster its sales, service and parts field operations, reversing head count reductions that happened under former CEO Carlos Tavares, to better support U.S. dealerships.
About $10 an hour…for long hours and hard work, and this is a job you have to love or you wouldn’t do it. If someone wants the details, they can message me.
What total nonsense from some judgmental politically motivated hack..
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