<p>I have a son who would really like to pursue this field. I think he has talent, but his grandparents are making us crazy, convinced he will spend his life waiting tables and not being able to support himself. If you have a child who has already gotten their degree, what are they doing now?</p>
<p>Georgia, </p>
<p>I am sorry that I don’t have a child who has already gotten a degree but is currently IN a degree program. We never hesitated at all about her pursuing this degree. I realize others may feel differently. I’ve known for years she would go into this as it is part of who she is. I believe kids should pursue whatever major they are interested in. I have never cared what major my kids chose. One has chosen musical theater and one has chosen architecture. We have never discussed which major could yield more jobs or money, ever. I think one should pursue what interests them in college. </p>
<p>As far as after college, these are my thoughts. First, no matter the major, college is an education. An educated person has more opportunities in life, usually, than someone without an education. Many working people today have jobs that do not necessarily correlate with their major in college. A person with a college degree can be hired for many jobs, not just for the major they studied. Even with the BFA degree, my kid is taking liberal arts classes and of course, will have studied theater in depth, as well as been trained in MT. A person with a degree in theater can do many things besides performing. There are many jobs in the theater world, for instance. Also, there was a wonderful article we received at the Syracuse audition that describes and lists all the skills that a person with a degree in theater obtains that are transferrable to the work world. So, just the college degree alone equips these kids to get jobs. </p>
<p>Naturally, anyone pursuing a BFA is going to try to make it as a performer initially. I know my kid will try. I think people have to equate success in this field as not making it to Broadway, which very few accomplish, but a wider goal to make it performing on the theatrical stage, hopefully professionally. Many will be able to do that if they widen the goal. Some won’t. While someone is trying their hand at professional theater auditions, there are jobs they can do besides being a waiter. I would imagine that many who are talented at performing, also possess other skills and talents. Speaking just from personal experience, I know that my kid could likely get jobs musically directing, accompanying, writing, and so on. There are other things she is capable of doing related to performing on stage. I am not worried if she will be able to WORK. I hope she can be cast IN shows but I know between her college degree, let alone the fact that she has other theater skills and experiences beyond performing, that she will make it on her own in some capacity post graduation. </p>
<p>Lastly, if everyone who had a passion and talent for MT didn’t go on to pursue it in college for fear of not getting work on stage post graduation, then nobody would go into it. Many things involve some risk. People have regrets if they do not pursue their passion. I see getting a degree in MT as a win situation. There is nothing to lose. If they don’t pursue it, they can’t make it. They may make it on stage. And if they don’t, their degree will still take them places beyond being on stage. </p>
<p>That is my take on that question.</p>
<p>What Susan said. 
Speaking for myself, I do NOT want my daughter to look back on her life and regret “the road not taken.” Furthermore, I honestly do not believe this is my road to choose; it’s hers.</p>
<p>I have a job.</p>
<p>My career path was a bit unusual, I admit. First off, my majors in college were not theater, though I acquired enough theater credits to become a major if triple majors had been allowed. I then acted professionally for a bit over three years and did well enough to save money. Then, my wife and I decided our marriage wasn’t going to make it if we stayed in theater, so I went back to school and, eventually, acquired a Ph.D. and became faculty in a field unrelated to the arts.</p>
<p>We have a good friend who started as an actress, became a published and rather acclaimed poet, and is now a tenured faculty member in the English department of a Big 10 school. We have other former theater friends who write children’s books and are pretty successful at it.</p>
<p>And then, we have a number of friends who are either working actors, supporting themselves, or have even made it big.</p>
<p>Yes, I know lots of people with MT degrees who change directions later in life, and that includes a sister with a bachelor’s in vocal performance, followed by a master’s in musical theatre from Boston Conservatory. She worked for a few years in the business out of the country, and came back to do regional theatre, national tours, industrials, etc. She neverendingly worried about money, health insurance, etc. A couple of years ago she took a “real” job so she and her husband would have the security to buy a house, start a family, etc. My brother-in-law is several years younger than she is and attended Ithaca. He does temp jobs while continuing to pursue acting work. </p>
<p>I think that’s why the family is so worried about my son pursuing this avenue, because we already know firsthand how difficult it is. My sister has already told me she would never advise anyone to pursue it. But if he “had his druthers” this would be his career of choice. It is his life, and he’s already told us he doesn’t want to live the rest of his life wondering “what if” should he go with another major. And I guess I am looking for reassurance that supporting his dream is not setting him up for hardships later, that there are other avenues should the career not work out for him after getting his degree.</p>
<p>And, do you have family/friends that think you are absolutely insane for encouraging your child in the performing arts? How do you cope with that?</p>
<p>Georgia, the last thing I think you will want for your son is for him to regret he didn’t follow his burning interest area and hold any resentments that family held him back. He is going to be an adult and it is his choice to make and you can discuss the issues that he might have down the line and so forth in an informative way but not to discourage him. </p>
<p>You asked if any family or friends have thought we were insane to encourage our kid…the answer for me is a resounding no. I have heard strangers say things like “have a back up” or some such. But any family or friends who truly know my kid are not at all surprised at the path she chose as they know this is just who she is and never questioned it and have all been supportive. Nobody ever told me what to major in (my field, education, is low paying, even though I have a graduate degree from Harvard!) and I certainly would never dream of telling my kids what to major in either. </p>
<p>IF YOU support your son’s path, don’t worry what others think. Explain how you feel and that is all that matters. If he is meant to be successful in life and works hard, he will succeed. Who knows how far he will make it as a performer but the first step is to get an education and an education never goes out of style. Success need not be narrowly defined as making it Broadway, or even making it ON stage.</p>
<p>I agree with Susan, we went to a workshop conducted by a Disney casting director, and he was very frank about careers in this field. but he also pointed out that teaching is a very viable way to use this degree and he said they were approached often from the business (big business) sector to help their employees be better speakers and presentation givers as well as how give a more confident persona to their people. He said having a background in theater is very definitly a bonus in business.</p>
<p>What to do with a MT major has been a topic of discussion in our household of late. D, who is not applying yet has discussed it in terms "if I work for a while, say 10 years and then want to have a family can I a) go back to college for a graduate degree, of b) get other kinds of jobs? D’s boyfriend has been accepted into a non-audition program but he is getting pressure to look at a degree with a more certain career path. The boyfriend comes from a home with VERY limited income - they will struggle to send him to the most inexpensive public university in the area. I think for his family they feel this is an enormous risk.
We have talked with both D and her boyfriend about the general value of a college degree - any degree. There are many many jobs that do not have a specific skill set that fits neatly into a degree and a MT degree prepares you just as much for them as say a history degree. There are many college degrees that do not prepare you for much other than more schooling, but because they are more conventional people don’t question them. But is someone less employable with BFA MT than a BA is psychology? At least with a BFA in MT you are qualified to work in your degree field, something that a psychology BA does not provide.
I don’t really understand the people who question why MT there are no jobs. This same logic applies to many areas.</p>
<p>My S is 2 years out of a top LAC where he majored double-majored in Theater/Dance and Music (theater/dance was one department). For his senior project he wrote an original musical and performed production miracles on the campus engendering fiscal cooperation between the two departments so he could stage his show. If he ever needed a starter job in business, he could point to that experience. While it wouldn’t land him a job, it demonstrated a lot of determination, organizational savvy and enterpreneurial courage. He was motivated to pursue it because of his passion for the artistic work he was doing. He proved he “could” make money by using everything the Theater training taught him: persuasive speaking, improvisational skills, time management, teamwork, being “in the moment” to recognize when the meetings werre going well and when he needed to refocus his pitch. He has never taken a business course.</p>
<p>In the 2 years since graduation, he moved to NYC, first landing housing in a midget-sized Manhattan apartment in return for 20 hours/week of afterschool childcare and homework tutoring for a wealthy Manhattan professional couple. The following year, he moved into an apartment near Columbia University but really in Harlem, sharing with 2 other people. Your child’s grandparents wouldn’t like the neighborhood much but inside it is just fine, newly renovated, sleek and attractive. (Four floor walkup, however).
His main dayjob is teaching afterschool Hebrew and Judaic studies, several afternoons per week. He also does SAT tutoring, a cottage industry in New York City. He has another job where he takes photos in a bar of some kind and sells them to patrons, much like the photographers who do this for people on cruises. He auditioned and won an acting role with a nonprofit organization that has a huge grant to present plays about anti-bullying in NYC middle schools, and then facilitate discussion in classrooms following the production in the school auditorium. </p>
<p>Right after college, he came home for the summer to work at a local restaurant to learn HOW to wait tables, but since living in NYC has not yet used that skill. </p>
<p>All that matters is that the job have flexible scheduling. It is not a source of identity to an actor. Just as you don’t tell everybody where you bank your money, they don’t define themselves as table-waiters. </p>
<p>He’s been in a dozen off-broadway or off-off-broadway plays, several student films, and is now at the ground-floor level of two nascent performing troupes in Manhattan.</p>
<p>If he ever plateaus, he’ll get an MFA so he can more readily teach in a college, but so far he’s feeling that the artistic growth is so strong that he wants to continue in NYC as is, into his third year, at least. </p>
<p>He doesn’t own a car, nor would anyone sane in Manhattan want to. He supports himself and is very productive, kind, and happy with his current situation.</p>
<p>I do not know what the future will bring for him. His uncle, who was a percussionist until his late 20’s, gave it up to go to law school because he fell in love and had a baby to support. Would anyone say that the uncle should have never tried and experienced a decade in his 20’s, as he did, as a working musician?</p>
<p>I graduated with a BFA in Musical Theatre Perfomance about 14 years ago. I worked professionally as a performer (living in NYC) for about 4 years… realized that I didn’t love performing as much as I though I would, and decided I wanted to pursue training and work as a director. I ran a HS theatre program for a couple of years and then went to graduate school for directing. Received my MFA in directing, freelanced as a director and adjunct faculty member for about four and 1/2 years. Now work full time at a university in the Theatre Department as the head of the musical theatre program, and am the artistic director at a summer theatre.</p>
<p>Many people whom I graduated with still make their lives in the in tertainment industry… many as performers, some as directors, producers, casting directors, and theatre professors, etc… A few have changed career paths entirely… a few lawyers, a few doctors or therapists, a few managers (in non-theatre fields)… I do not know of any who regret their college degree path, or feel that it did not prepare them for the journey of life.</p>
<p>I remember when I was graduating from college my cousin (who had an undergraduate business degree) was having a very difficult time getting a job in his business related field My uncle said to me… “at least you knew that you would have a hard time getting work in your field when you started college.” Both my cousin and I now have good careers in our choosen fields. These days there are not many undergraduate degrees that lead to a high paying job in a choosen field… advanced training, and interships are often considered standard. In the end an education in an environment, and in a subject area in which the student is passionate is ultimately going to pay off… part of the process is pursueing a passion in order to grow and learn. I have taught many students in general education courses who were in college because they were not sure what else to do, and whom were not the least bit passionate about thier course of study. Passion is going to fuel discovery in education, and help a young person embark on the journey of life armed with the tools to always move forward and continue moving in the right direction, even if that direction may seem like a jog in the path they started on at age 17.</p>
<p>A career in the perfomring arts is hard path… but so is a career as a doctor, or a teacher, or a lawyer… In the end, life should not be lived with regret.</p>
<p>apparently I can’t spell, even after editing… oy, typos! That would be “entertainment” industry NOT “tertainment” industry… and “internships” NOT “interships” and “pursuing” NOT “pursueing”, “performing” NOT “perfomring”… I promise, my lack of spelling ability has nothing to do with my undergraduate degee path 
… argh!!!</p>
<p>Georgia, your family’s concerns are valid. I can say this as a parent of a BFA student who will graduate this year and who will be gainfully employed in her area of study. In fact, she had three different opportunities so she was incredibly fortunate. She, like theatredivasmom’s D (from the Tisch productions thread where there is a related discussion if anyone’s interested), prefers that I don’t discuss her personal business online, and I’ve respected her wish. What I can say is that she and a few friends, some pros and some fellow students, have banded together and a couple of years ago formed their own theatre company in NYC and have been extremely successful. Last summer they toured the UK with a show she wrote, produced, and acted in. She also arranged all aspects of the tour, including venues, accomodation, ticket sales, etc. She has had four of her plays published now and they have been produced by others both in the U.S. and Canada.</p>
<p>Our family has been involved in theatre for decades in every possible aspect of the business, so we are well aware of the vagaries of attempting to earn a living in this way. I have always supported my D’s decision but supporting and encouraging are, in my opinion, different. I would never strongly encourage someone to go into this field. It is simply too unpredictable and the vast majority will not EVER be able to earn a living being onstage. Let’s face it, most kids who are auditioning for college theatre programs are doing it because they want to perform. They don’t want to teach, they don’t want to go into business, they don’t want to do community theatre while working fulltime at some other job, they want to perform professionally and earn a living from it, and unfortunately for the vast majority of them, this will never happen.</p>
<p>I agree with Susan that a college degree is never a waste. An education is always valuable, regardless of what happens down the road, and in that regard, I would support a child’s desire to study theatre in college. What I see as an issue is that too many kids, and parents, have unrealistic expectations about what happens after college. The number of theatre actors who are able to earn a sustained living from theatre work is infinitessimal. Even actors who have been cast in Broadway shows often have difficulty getting another professional gig, and if they do happen to be fortunate enough to get a second opportunity, there are often large gaps of time where there is no money coming in. For a glimpse into the Broadway aspect of the business, spend some time on ibdb.com and look at how many shows open and close each season; how many actors who were in shows last year, or two or three years ago, or five years ago, have been cast in another show.</p>
<p>Can actors earn a living without some other form of income or family subsidy? Not for any length of time. Even the actors we know who have worked fairly steadily in NYC live a lifestyle that is very spare. It’s a very uncertain profession, I can’t really think of another that compares. We have a family friend who was fortunate enough to be in a longrunning Broadway show for close to seven years. He left when he was cast in another show, he was more than ready for a new opportunity. The new show closed after less than three weeks. So, salary and health benefits, gone, and nothing on the horizon. This new show came after dozens of auditions over the past couple of years. It’s a hard business! His wife, also an actor, is currently in an off-Broadway show, but that isn’t going to pay the rent for long.</p>
<p>I don’t want to sound like Debbie Downer but I think that kids, and parents, need to make informed decisions, and if, after considering future possibilities, they still want to study theatre, then go to it! My D did and we’ve supported her the entire way, and will likely have to continue supporting her financially to some degree. I’ve seen too many kids, and families, disappointed with this business when after getting great training, hundreds of auditions later, they still aren’t working. We, and our kids, should all be aware of this from the outset.</p>
<p>This discussion has me comparing our theatre kids path with that of college athletes. In my town, there’s much more college athletic “buzz” than there is BFA. There are similar issues. Athletes generally don’t get to go to their dream school, often don’t get to really choose a major (they’re given a small choice between a few that will fit into the athletic and training schedule), and they frequently end up at a college that they think will best advance their future to the professional ranks.</p>
<p>Unlike our theatre kids, many of these athletes have a difficult college experience and a good percentage don’t graduate. I have personal friends and professional colleagues who have been wrapped up in the athletic recruiting process. I have been amazed at some of our discussions. This year I am most pleased to see some of the talented athletes in my community choosing Division 1-AA schools over the Division 1 in order to have a better college experience and to be in more nurturing environments. Those kids will most likely never see the professional ranks, but are likely to end up with a very fine education while getting significant “play time” in their college games. I believe those kids will graduate and like ours, will go on to do something important, whether in sports or theatre or something else.</p>
<p>ElliottsMom</p>
<p>I’ve often given thought to that comparison. The biggest difference, by my calculations anyway, is that it’s a lot easier to make a living as a professional athlete than as an actor.</p>
<p>Scary thought, huh?</p>
<p>The college advisor at my D’s small private school, who has never had ANYONE try for theatre or musical theatre as she has, said incredulously not long ago, “The competitiveness of musical theatre admissions is much worse than D-1 sports!” No news to me, and he deals with a lot of students who are using athletics in the admissions process. Other parents at my D’s school, who think she is extremely talented, just give me a shocked, rather blank look when I tell them she has applied to 12 schools and about all the auditioning and the rate of acceptance at these schools - even ones they have never heard of. You are right, thank goodness for CC, where you find parents and students who DO understand!</p>
<p>To gain parity of opportunity between sports and theater students, we’d have to fill up a stadium with 70,000 people @ $150./ticket on a series subscripion, with everybody screaming in anticipation to see the cast of
“The Bald Soprano” come striding confidently out onto the stage. The stage would be draped with sponsorships from beer and clothing manufacturers. It would be televised. And all over America, much fuss over ‘t-ball’ theater.
That’s not a country I inhabit.
If you like the exercise and dribbling the ball, play basketball in college and if you love the feeling of “the boards” then major in Theater. Just don’t be one of those parents that imagines even the most talented kid necessarily becoming Shaq or Tom Cruise.
The best and only advice I have is: Plan to keep your day job. </p>
<p>I also think the MT departments would be doing every kid a service to press them to have a MARKETABLE skill (not table-waiting) with flexible scheduling built-in, for their first decade at LEAST. Dental hygienist, foreign language teacher (my kid counts on this one), H&R Block seasonal crackerjack, the list goes on. And if you do wait tables, learn how to do it high-scale, with the wines and tuxedoes. GET SKILLS.</p>
<p>One of the better jobs around is substitute teacher. When you get work, you leave. When you come back, you go right back to work.</p>
<p>I also thought about substitute teaching, Tarhunt. Our system has a hard time finding teachers, much less substitutes. By the way, just wondering about the name…are you from NC?</p>
<p>Substitute teaching is a good survival job, as is temp work… particularly if you have computer skills… I know some people who are proofreaders… nerver something I could do, because I can’t spell… I also know people who were tutors… but that was not as flexible as waiting tables, temping, or substituting, because you have a commitment to that particular kid, and can’t just leave for a few month when you get a theatre gig… also can be difficult to make auditions if they conflict with your tutoring schedule.</p>
<p>Some of the other jobs mentioned above… dental hygenist, tax prep… are jobs that take a much more significant commitment in terms of time and schedule… they are careers… they may be a good choice for some actors, but the draw of waiting tables, temping, and subbing is that when you walk out the door you leave the job behind, and you work when you want/ need to. Waiting tables is hard work, but actually may be the highest paying of the bunch. I was making $700 - $800 per week in the summer month back in 1996 :)</p>
<p>Georgia:</p>
<p>No. My handle is an obscure reference to my hobby, which is ancient history.</p>