Juilliard Financial Aid: Is this normal, what would you do?

I’m going to throw out another option…have you thought about boarding school for one year?

Many of the top US boarding schools offer a post-graduate year (PG) or basically Grade 13. The PG students generally are filled with athletes who are looking to spend an extra year on their sport before applying for college. But at my son’s boarding school there were a couple of PGs who focused on performing arts. The arts study at some of these boarding schools will rival small colleges, but nothing like what he would get at Juilliard.

But here are two good points about a PG year:

  1. Your son might get good financial aid (especially at the better endowed schools like Andover and Exeter)
  2. Could help him to live out his desire to live in the US. Would be only a one year commitment, then he could decide afterwards if he wanted to stay in US or return back to CH.

I don’t think the OP lived in the US when he was 14. I don’t believe his wife is/was a US citizen since he didn’t say she gave up citizenship, and if she still has it, no issues for the kids at all.

If the student WAS born a citizen but just didn’t realize it, then there might be relief under 8 U.S.C. § 1435(d)(1), I.N.A. § 324(d)(1). The person had to be a citizen at birth. I don’t think he was born a citizen since he only had one US citizen parent and that parent hadn’t lived in the US for 5 years, two of which were after age 14.

And the OP said he doesn’t want the son to be a US citizen because “being a Swiss-American double-citizen can involve serious long term headaches.”

@twoinanddone Under US law, it would appear the son acquired US citizenship automatically at birth since his father is US born and lived in the US for at least two years after he was 14 (note: State Department regulations allow even this requirement to be waived but that’s a moot point since he has satisfied it). Therefore whether the father wants the son to be a US citizen is immaterial. Moreover, if the son has derivative citizenship, he MUST enter the US on a US passport. In truth, the son won’t have a choice since were he to apply for a student visa, the application will be rejected since he has US citizen parent(s). This is a basic check the State Department makes.

If the son doesn’t want US citizenship, he must go through the renunciation process. Until he does, and until his renunciation application is approved by the State Department, he remains a US citizen.

I didn’t read it that way. The father said he was born in the US but raised in Europe.

I was also going to suggest a gap year trip to the USA or looking for a non-collegiate summer music program or an exchange program. Juilliard is very prestigious here-but I am sure there are also prestigious programs in Switzerland or elsewhere that would be much less of a financial commitment for your family. I think Juilliard opens doors here in the US…you would know better what it means abroad. @baridad - we were just in Switzerland in September and my 14 year old has decided she’d rather be a nanny in Lucerne when she graduates high school, instead of going straight to college here!

@twoinanddone

The father says he has lived in Switzerland since his early 20’s.

But…

So…the question is…when did the dad actually move to Europe?

Re: a gap year…who is going to pay for this? The family is concerned bout funding Juilliard. Funding a gap year at some prep school or whatever seems like a waste of money to me. This kid already HAS demonstrated he has the musical skills to get accepted to the Juilliard School. He doesn’t need a gap year.

I wouldn’t do a gap year or prep school either. I believe you said your son was already relatively “old” applying as a freshman correct? He probably would not be happy with a prep school experience then anyway. It is actually a huge advantage as a male applying to VP programs to be a bit older in terms of vocal maturity. I know students who’ve intentionally taken gap years to apply to VP programs. My own kid vocally would have definitely benefited but he’s also anxious to move onto college and he’s interested in academic programs too.

That said, another thought if your financing follow up doesn’t work out is to consider following up on undergrad VP training in Europe keeping costs low and then pursue masters vocal training in the US. That program would be 2 years instead of 4 and often masters degree students are better funded by music programs. You could cast a wider net. If your son is getting accepted to Julliard now, there’s a good chance he may be fully funded somewhere for a masters and you may just need to cover expenses. Many serious vocal students in the states do an undergrad and a masters.
Just thought I’d throw that out there as another thought.

The son’s citizenship status will impact his ability to work in the US while he studies, and it would impact his ability to remain in the US once he’s done, if he wants to do so. Although, with a student visa, he can work in his field while he’s at school, some employers, including those in the arts, won’t hire him due to the complexities they feel are involved. So his lack of US citizenship might impact his ability to gig and etc. And if it’s relatively easy for him to get a US passport (if his dad was a citizen at the time of the kid’s birth, it should be), he might consider doing that.

Hi to all of your guys and thanks for your questions and comments!

I’ve gone dark for a couple weeks because negotiations with Juilliard and Curtis both turned out to be a bit more complex than expected - with Juilliard in terms of possible further financial aid, with Curtis in terms of possible admissions. I had initially assumed that both processes were cut and dried - as it turns out, it’s more complicated than that. Since the musical world is small, it seemed wise to just shut up until the dust had settled … Anyway, it looks like the situation should be clear very soon - but I’ll say more about that when I actually see something in writing.

About citizenship - which seems to have caused some confusion:

  • My own parents (i.e., my son’s grandparents) are both US citizens and have been living in the US for many years now. (However, they were NOT living in the US while I was growing up.)
  • My wife is a Swiss citizen and was never anything else. (She’s why I live where I do!)
  • I am currently a Swiss citizen only; born US only, then dual Swiss-US until I got caught in the “FATCA wars” and renounced. However - and this is crucial to our children’s status -, I was raised almost entirely outside of the US and have never lived in the US after my 14th birthday. (My parents were involved in foreign religious work.)
  • Our children (22 and 20 - the 20-year-old is the singer) were both born in Switzerland and have never had US citizenship. (For them to have received automatic citizenship I would have had to have lived in the US for at least 2 years following my 14th birthday. For them to have received citizenship through MY OWN parents - i.e., their grandparents - we would have had to complete an application process before their 18th birthdays. We never pursued this option, so their window for receiving US citizenship from their grandparents is closed.)

… and to finish the story:

Our son just received official notification that he’s been accepted to study at Curtis in Philadelphia - an invitation he intends to accept.

This makes the financial scenario far easier, since Curtis doesn’t charge tuition. Not QUITE all of our financial issues are solved: The combination of travel to the US and cost of living at their facility in Philadelphia adds up to a number north of 20k per year! But even if we’re not completely out of the woods, we’re close enough to see our way home. My wife and I can swing 10-15k; add in a summer job in Switzerland, maybe some work as a German tutor in the US (?), some gigs back here in Switzerland (which, like everything here, pay WELL) - and we’ll definitely be able to do this. It may even be that some of the foundations he has contacted about helping with Juilliard will STILL be interested in helping with Curtis - in which case we’d be in clover.

So, all’s well that ends well.

In the process, I learned an important thing about the application process at these institutions: You don’t always get a simple yes or no. On the Curtis side, there were some issues that THEY had to decide about - for example, do they take a slightly older international student with 2 years more experience or a slightly younger domestic student? Or on the Juilliard side, it turns out that they might have been able to add a little more to the pot - but that the size of said pot wasn’t going to be entirely clear until the end of April and depended on various factors. Swiss bureaucratic processes tend to be a little more cut and dried - but we’ve no reason to complain at this point. Sometimes you just have to sit tight and let how stuff plays out …

(Reminds me of the old saying about the opera ain’t over till the plus-size lady sings.)

Congratulations. Curtis is a fabulous school. The housing etc will sort out. Hoping he can find a fellow Curtis student who needs a roommate.

Congratulations! That’s the best possible outcome :slight_smile: :slight_smile: Very happy for you!

Thanks for the update, and congratulations to you and your son.

Thanks for your friendly words and congratulations.

TBH, I’m not sure how I come across about all this, but the situation put my wife and me waaaay out of our depth. I’m a pastor, and it kind of comes with the territory that we’re a musical family - but a year ago I’m not even sure I could have said what they teach at Juilliard - and Curtis might as well have been Hogwarts. At the time, we had pretty high hopes that our son would get into a nice voice program here in Zürich. This journey has been undoubtedly cool (duh?!), but also bizarre.

Anyway … now I’m off to figure out how the whole health care thing works - but that’s definitely a question for the international forum.

many schools require students to have approved health insurance, and offer a plan through the school. Insurance in the US is a state by state thing, so an international student going to school in Mass or NY is not going to have the information you need about Pennsylvania.

  1. You need to check with your school and what they offer and require.
  2. You may be able to waive the school's policy and buy an international policy, but that may not be the best choice. Health care in the US is very expensive if you have to pay out of pocket. My daughter had to go to the ER recently and she didn't have her insurance card with her so we received a bill - almost $20k for about 3 hrs, and she had a kidney infection that was cleared with an antibiotic (not included in the $20 grand).
  3. My other daughter bought the health insurance offered by her college, which was about $600 per semester. It served her well.

@twoinanddone

Umm - totally off topic, but did everything work out okay with your daughter’s treatment AND the financing thereof??

More generally: Thanks for that overview - and yeah: I’m studying the school’s website, and I’m pretty sure I’m going to need to call for some clarification. They seem to have something called a “health services fee” which costs $1150 p.a., and seems to be required. However, they ALSO have a “health insurance policy” of their own, costing a further $3800. It looks like you’re meant to get both, which, added together, comes out to about 5k. While all the other costs they describe seem reasonable, this seems quite high. (But maybe I’m misunderstanding stuff.)

Your son will be required to have health insurance while he is here. As an international student, he will not be able to purchase off the ACA exchanges, I don’t think. Plus he has to show residency in PA to be able to purchase a plan in PA.

Get the health insurance. Ask what the health services fee is. If it’s required…you will need to pay that as well.

Wow. Those are probably the most expensive college health/health insurance costs I have seen. Both charges do seem mandatory:https://www.curtis.edu/admissions/financial-assistance/estimated-student-budget/

Does the Swiss national health insurance cover students studying abroad? Some colleges won’t allow any international coverage, but Curtis does not seem to address this on their website. You will have to call them to discuss.

Thanks @thumper1 - and yeah, no disagreement from here about getting the insurance! (We Swiss folks are the most insured people on earth, and that’s not something I want to change any too soon.)

I’m just a little surprised at how expensive the package is - a while back I checked 3rd party offers on health insurance packages for foreign students in the US, and they were a good bit less than 5k per year. But there may be good reasons for that. I’ll call up and ask next week.

https://www.allianzworldwidecare.com/en/international-individual-health-insurance/who-we-help/students/

^You could check and see how much one of their policies are and if they would satisfy what the school requires.

If you are able to waive the insurance from Curtis, keep track of deadlines.