My son is trying to finalize his 11th grade class schedule. Likely mechanical engineering or software engineering as a focus in college. Probably targeting California UCs and CSUs with a few reach schools on east coast if that matters.
Right now he’s looking at:
-AP calculus AB
-AP chem
-Spanish 3
AP language, or regular Jr English class
AP US history, or regular US history class
either intro to engineering, or advanced comp sci class that they would focus on building an app or project.
For current 10th grade he is taking AP world history (got a B for first semester) and AP comp sci (got an A). He has As in all his other regular classes.
General questions:
I see a lot of kids here taking 4-5 AP classes jr year but I’m a bit nervous that jumping from 2 to 4 APs (and harder APs vs before) will tank his GPA. Are the 4 APs he’s currently considering manageable? He will also likely do track as a school sport.
if he does only 3 APs is it better to take the AP English language or AP US history. He’s not a history buff and he’s also not super strong writer. I’m thinking AP English might be more useful to help him strengthen his writing skills…even if he might only manage a B in the class.
would an intro to engineering help to understand more careers in engineering (and he would be able to take next level, principles of engineering class). Or would having a more project based class to develop an app or software be more useful as he could highlight it as a part of future project portfolio?
I also believe for UC/CSUs they only let you count 4 AP classes so sounds like taking too many won’t really help with grade bump? Appreciate any insights or thoughts!
#1 take what’s right for him. Strain but don’t crush yourself. If he doesn’t get into a CSU or UC (and he likely will), there’s a ton of affordable OOS publics, some cheaper than your in state depending on stats. Short of a few schools, where you go for MechE doesn’t truly matter (imho) as long as they are ABET accredited. So if 2-3 is the right amount or even zero, it’s fine. Not saying you’d go to zero - just saying there’s still be solid schools. For OOS merit, gpa and sometimes SAT often matter over rigor.
#2. English or history - no matter imho. Whatever he’d prefer.
#3 yes it would but likely irrelevant for admissions. But if he has room in the schedule - make sure he hits the UC minimums including the arts class. If he wants to learn bout if engineering is right for him, attend a summer program like Operation Catapult at RHIT or STEP at Purdue.
Not all schools care about rigor but to be a MechE he’ll need to be strong in math (seems he is with AB ahead of schedule) and science.
The weighted-capped GPA formula uses grades from a-g academic courses in grades 10-11 (9-11 for CPSLO) with +1 for up to 8 semesters of honors (including AP) courses.
CSUs plug the recalculated GPA into their admission formulae. UCs include it, as well as unweighted and fully weighted (no 8 semester limit), GPAs for holistic admission reading. Most UC web sites listing high school GPA show the weighted-capped version (which is unlikely to be greater than 4.3 or 4.4), although if you see high school GPA greater than 4.4, it is likely the fully weighted version.
If “reach schools” means the most selective ones, then taking the hardest options for courses and earning A grades in them is just the basic minimum for any possibility of admission. However, for not-as-selective schools, then there is less pressure to do that.
UCs and CSUs do vary in selectivity. UCR and UCM are not as hard to get into as UCB and UCLA, while CSUC and SFSU are not as hard to get into as CPSLO.
This is not exactly correct. UC CAP WGPA capped at 4 AP/Honor Classes. But UCs still consider class rigor and full WGPA and UW GPA, especially UCB and UCLA. FYI, S24 majoring Aero Eng came off UCD waitlist and rejected by all other top/mid tier UCs with 4.0 UW GPA and 4.31 CAP WGPA. Good Luck.
I think OP is concerned with too much rigor and if that’s the case and the GPA is great, there’s nothing wrong with the Arizona schools, WUE schools, or even schools like Alabama that depending on the students mobility and SAT/ACT can even be cheaper.
In other words, one can over stretch now in hopes of a UC, but if that’s a concern, there’s plenty of options that will get you a similar career outcome.
Keep in mind that the kids who do take 4-5 APs per year and get As in them, are going to be your child’s competition. I’m not saying your child can’t compete, but if the choice is “more APs and Bs vs fewer APs” then you may need to expand your college list, if by “reaches on the east coast” you mean the usual CC slew of colleges.
AP English is probably easier to get a 5 on, and may confer more freshman credit, than APUSH.
Intro to Engineering will probably not be helpful. “Real” engineering is nearly always calculus-based and requires a lot of physics (and some thermodynamics) background, so what is taught in high schools is sometimes a lot of fooling around with parts.
I don’t think any of us can answer if his schedule will be manageable for him. He likely doesn’t know either. His GPA and rigor both matter in selective college admissions, and his stats will be compared to the GPA and rigor of his classmates.
I lean towards AP Lang, partially because he received a B in AP World History. APUSH is among the toughest AP courses, with that said, many selective colleges will want to see him take both these APs (especially if his peers are.)
Intro to engineering is an elective class. It could be useful for him in determining career direction, but perhaps he can get at that some other way…such as joining an engineering or CS type club (robotics, coding club, tech student association, etc.) or doing an engineering or CS summer program. Would he prefer this class or the advanced comp sci class? Some schools will count the CS class as core, the vast majority will count the intro to engineering as an elective.
I would have him talk to his current teachers about which classes they recommend for him and why. Alternatively/additionally, he can discuss his proposed schedule with them and get their advice. They will have a good idea about his current abilities, what the next courses are like (and what the teachers are like), and how students handle that difficult of a load. He may also want to speak to his counselor about the impact his choices would make on the counselor’s designation of rigor and on potential impacts on college decisions.
Once he’s done that, I would see what he is thinking and prefers. Give him some ownership of this decision. In a little over a year, he’ll be making all the decisions on his college classes. If he bites off too much now and either has lower grades or needs to drop down to regular (it sounds like honors is not an option), then he has a sense of his limitations when he’s looking at what is more plausible when he’s in college (i.e. some kids plan to try and overload slightly in order to graduate in 3 years or similar). If he manages the workload well, that tells him something different.
But I think it’s best that he experiment with his schedule while at home. It might be wildly successful or maybe he’ll need some assistance in learning new techniques for studying or time management or whatever. But he’ll have a supportive group of adults around who are keeping a close eye on him, so it’s a much safer place to struggle than once he’s on his own in college.
I would focus on covering the foundational subjects for the AP’s. He has already taken a history AP, so English (Lang) seems essential. The 4th AP really depends on the student and the HS- impossible for this forum to answer. If he is not certain about it, I would recommend taking the 3 AP’s (and acing them all) and having some extra time to take an EC or two to the next level during Jr. year. He can then take 4 AP’s senior year (including AP Physics and AP Lit) - he will be better equipped to handle the extra load by that time.
I 2nd the advice to talk to the school counselor and see what their input is on this. Here’s some additional food for thought to consider:
take the advanced computer science class instead of intro to engineering.
if his extracurricular schedule allows time for it AND if your high school has it, have him join the Robotics team.
if ability to get A’s on 4 AP classes in 11th grade is a concern, take AP English Language instead of AP USH.
only YOU will know, in your gut, whether taking 4 APs in junior year AND getting A’s in all of them is do-able. You know your kid way better than the rest of us do.
if he’s going to be applying to UCs, then the other poster was right when they said that your kid’s competition will be kids who took more APs and got A’s in all of them. East Coast reach schools…same thing.
East Coast reach schools, generally speaking, will say that they want you to take ALL of the hard classes at your high school AND get high grades in them AND get 5’s on all of those AP exams. But guess what? Even if you do all of those things, it’s not a guarantee that you’ll get in (this is why it’ll be important to find a couple of easier-to-get-into schools that your son would be happy to attend).
Something else to consider:
University of New Mexico might be worth exploring. Non-resident freshmen with at least a 3.0 unweighted GPA & test score of 20 ACT/1030 SAT are eligible to pay in-state tuition rates (your kid could qualify for a WUE+ scholarship) + there’s Lobo Housing Scholarships for WUE students for an extra $1k-$4k/yr.
NMSU also has a good engineering department and their OOS scholarships are equally, if not more, generous.
Totally depends on the student. Is that inherently “too much”? No. Is it “necessary” to be competitive? Also no.
At my kids public HS, that schedule would have been a typical junior year. Most kids took all APs across the core academic subjects by 11th grade. But a lot of them would have been doing that regardless of college admissions prospects. They would have wanted to take the version of the subject that was the most challenging because they would have been bored otherwise. That’s not true for all. But some. My youngest kids 11th grade looked like this: AP Calc BC, AP Physics C (ME & EM), AP World History (they do APUS in 10th), AP Language and Composition, foreign language (many of his peers to the AP foreign language this year), Advanced Competition Jazz Band (required course to be in the band), P.E. (required) and two semesters of D.E. music courses at the nearby Ivy League college. His siblings also took AP Macro/Micro Junior year but he couldn’t because of the DE course. Similar to your student’s school, sophomore year they typically only took 1-2 APs because the school regimented it – you weren’t allowed to do an AP science or english until Junior year (with rare exceptions).
AP Chem and APUSH are known to be difficult APs. That said, once you understand the way AP history courses are taught, it’s much easier to manage APUSH. My S26 was in AP World last year (sophomore year) and he got a B both semesters. He just landed an A in first semester APUSH—he said it’s much easier since he understands now how to write the SAQs, LEQs, DBQs, etc.
I also think AP lang could be super helpful for a junior who will be writing essays a year later.
Since he is in an AP history class this year, I think he could handle all 4 if he is quite strong in science and math already.
All that said it’s true that you want to balance the rigor with the ability to land grades. Was the B in AP World a struggle? Does your S think he can get an A in AP World second semester?
I agree with several previous poster that a whole lot is determined by your child’s particular high school. The rigor of classes varies tremendously - as well as the alternative options. My kid really didn’t want to take AP Lit senior year for example. He’d already taken AP Lang and knew that the vast majority of schools he was interested in wouldn’t give credit for both and humanities wasn’t an area of strength. BUT his high school had pretty terrible options for Honors or non-AP in English so he made the decision to take it anyway. Individual teachers can make a huge difference as well in the workload as well as the enjoyment of the class. Good luck!
Another voice to try and get a feel for specifics at his school (including asking older students if possible). APUSH has a reputation as being a hard class, but after my D22 stayed away due to advice from friends at other schools who had taken the class, my S25 took it (and S27 is taking it right now), and the workload at their school is very reasonable and the teacher does an excellent job of instructing the students. Meanwhile, my D22 in her non-AP “regular” US history spent so many class periods watching documentary videos and playing “simulation games.” It was practically a worthless class.
Not sure if your Engineering classes are the Project Lead the Way classes - the course titles match the PLTW classes offered at our school. My S25 took those at our school and found them to not be very worthwhile. I think some of the Engineering skills are better learned in a club or other extracurricular that is actually building something. S27 joined first robotics this year and I think has learned more than S25 learned in two years of Engineering classes. But again, it may vary quite a bit depending on the skill of the instructor in the Engineering classes.
After a couple days of consideration, he’s going to try to take the 4 AP courses, and the intro to engineering class (as his friend is taking it). I told him to monitor progress at the beginning of the year and he can always drop one (US history or English) back to regular class, within the first 3 weeks.
I know it’s going to be a big challenge and much heavier work load. But he chose the classes, so I’ll do my best to support and help when needed. If we end up with some Bs, at least he tried!
That sounds like a fine plan. But, are those all his classes? If so, what core subject course is his missing then? Core = English, science, foreign language, math, social studies.
I would still encourage him to participate in some major related activities whether in or out of the high school.
AP English
AP US History
AP Chem
AP Calc A/B
Spanish 3
Intro to engineering
He normally does cross country/track which does make it hard to do the Robotics clubs after school. But he’s been volunteering and in a program with some small projects at a science museum since last summer. We may take a programming class this summer.
What would be other good areas to look into for mech E or computer engineering?
Also, make sure he has biology, chemistry and physics on his transcript. AP Chem and AP Bio are typically second-year courses, while AP Physics is designed as a first year physics course. If your high school allows AP Bio or AP Chem before a freshman or sophomore course then its likely not going as deep into the material. Our private high school requires Advanced Bio before AP Bio, the same with chem.
Another note - schools that only have 5 or 6 class slots will have less opportunities for electives and some AP courses, its just the fact of not having many slots.
For example, we have 8 classes per semester due to block scheduling and most of the electives are one semester (like an intro to engineering) so kids can easily take 4-6 electives junior and senior year while taking 4-5 AP classes.
Does your family have any requirements around cost, specific geographic regions, etc.? That might help people make some suggestions on colleges if you’re looking for such suggestions.
