Junior year realizations & managing expectations [PA resident, <$38k]

Parents Forum
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Hello - long-time lurker, first-time poster. I will try to keep this first post brief, as I have a lot of questions swirling around in my head about how to strategize time with the remainder of this school year in terms of boosting GPA, studying for standardized tests, being smart about ECs, course selection for senior year, etc.

However, in general, my daughter is old for her grade yet fairly immature about this whole process. (Really thankful that she did not make the kindergarten cutoff way back when, as she would not be ready to graduate this spring).

We have had the budget talk with her, and we have also had the talk about where she likely falls within her class - based on her school’s high school profile and how that influences things. However, she is not interested in even looking at schools that have higher acceptance rates, are more affordable for middle class families, or will be likely admits without super high stats.

We have done one tour of a small LAC and one large state flagship while on a short road trip with my son’s sports team - just to get an idea of which type of environment she found to be a better fit. Both visits were to very good schools that would be “targets” for her, academically, with the public one slightly overbudget; the LAC - a financial toss-up (could actually be underbudget with Tuition Exchange, through my workplace).

She finds all of this depressing as she’s only interested in schools like NYU, Boston University, UCLA. I don’t even know if she’s interested in “the college experience” because she claims she would rather go to “any school” in NYC or vicinity than to an isolated campus - even if in a large college town with plenty to do. I’m not sure she’s understanding that getting engaged with life at college + her studies = a full plate, and she will not be bored. The kicker is - she’s kind of a homebody and she always runs out of time on her weekends with just managing finishing schoolwork, maybe working a 4-hour shift at her part-time job, and hanging out with a friend for a few hours one evening.

I think she’s spent too much time on YouTube, TikTok, or Pinterest following videos of girls shopping in SoHo between classes and such, that she is thinking of college as her “exploring the real world” time vs. post college. At least, that is how I see it (and what I’m up against :laughing:).

Someone please tell me that she will be directed to Naviance or College Vine or something similar by 3rd quarter by a school counselor and that things start to become clearer, and yet not in an overwhelmingly “depressing” way.

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I think you can adjust her thinking with a few tweaks.

NYC is NOT just NYU. Fordham, St. John’s, Brooklyn College, Baruch, Queens, Lehman, City College, Wagner, Hunter. I don’t know if any of these would meet your budget or are realistic based on her stats- but for a kid hellbent on NYC, there are a lot of options.

Ditto for Boston- and I won’t bore you with the list, they are easily googled. Variety of admissions rates and price tags.

If she’s interested in urban and doesn’t care which city- Temple, Drexel, University of Illinois/Chicago campus, De Paul, Loyola
 etc.

I suspect that exposing her to a wide variety is the way to go. Trying to persuade a kid who wants urban that she could be just as happy in rural Vermont may not be the best path right now!

If you post more details about budget and stats we can probably help.

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Pitt, Charleston, UMN, VCU - lots of urban schools - for LACs, Macalester, Occidental - really schools of all sizes urban - and some may not be in city but city adjacent or easy access.

If she knows she wants to be in the city, then you can focus visits on city schools.

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I totally get this. I was the same. I wanted NYC, that was my top criterion for a college (I did include some non-NYC back-ups on my list, but I was really gunning for NYC). And I went to Fordham, which turned out to be a fantastic fit. Maybe academically a target for her (I don’t know her stats, of course, so no idea)? Maybe she would be elgible for merit scholarships to make it affordable?

As blossom very correctly notes: NYC is more than NYU and I personally see this kind of geographic preference a very legitimate part of building a college list - because I did that myself :slight_smile:

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echoing what others have said. My D had her heart set on Boston. In my mind, that was as good of a reason as any for a (then) 17 yo to use to prioritize where to apply. FWIW, she did end up at a school in Boston (not one of the big names) and attended on a TE scholarship.

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When my S22 first told me he wanted to go to college in NYC, I was worried it was something like this too. But turns out, he knew his own mind, and is thriving in NYC (actually currently in Tokyo doing a semester abroad, and loving that too.)

Anyway, we made a deal that we would support trying to get him to NYC for college, BUT he had to be open to more than just NYU, AND we made him apply to our Midwest (urban) flagship as a financial and acceptance safety. Other than that, all his applications were in NYC. The final list was NYU (ended up being $89K/yr
nope!), Fordham, Pratt, Parsons, CUNY Brooklyn College, F.I.T., CUNY Queens, CUNY City College. I think he could have had a good experience at any of these. He ended up at Fordham. Our son was also somewhat of a homebody growing up. He was either at school, doing his one (rather time intensive) EC, or at home. But as a college student, he is taking FULL advantage of the city. It is a thrill to watch.

There are a lot of cool urban schools that belong to TE in and around NYC, as well as in and around other great cities. Really the list has something for everyone. If you let us know her interests we can make recommendations.

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Another option for a kid dead set on a city experience might be to do a gap year through AmeriCorps’ City Year program. There are a number of participating cities across the US including NYC, Boston and LA. This would provide an extra year of maturity.

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As you know, Tuition Exchange is becoming super difficult to receive.

You had the budget talk you said. Pull up NYU/UCLA tuition online on their website. Restate we ONLY have “insert number” amount to give you. NYU/UCLA is “insert number” way too much. YOU as a child can only apply for $5500 in loans. You will not go to NYU/UCLA period. Sorry, not sorry. :slight_smile:

I agree that if she loves urban schools there are many out there! I too have TE and I made my kids lists for them. They were free to veto schools and to add AFFORDABLE schools only.

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Thank you all for giving me a fresh perspective on a lot of this!! I feel like I’m sometimes somehow handicapped by my own decades of being in and around colleges, which makes it hard to break free from my own ideas about various types of colleges sometimes. I also think I have become an insanely practical person in my old age, which has, perhaps, taken some of the fun out of this experience.

My basic parameters for my daughter have been:

a) Select schools to apply to that offer every major still under any consideration (Theater, Marketing, Finance, Media, Film, History
 ?).
She has thought about each of these at some point over the last year; this is part of what gives me pause about either a smaller school that might not offer [or have adequate enrollment] in a given major, or a university where it’s difficult to transfer between the College of Arts & Sciences & the College of Business.

b) Tuition Exchange award or COA of in-state flagship(s) - Pitt or Penn State (approx. $38K), whether that be SLAC with merit award, in-state publics, or an out-of-state tuition match situation.

c) I would like my daughter to stay within about a 3 or 4-hour drive away.
I will be more flexible on this if there’s some positive progress this year in terms of maturity, executive functioning skills, managing money, and maybe most importantly, improvements in mental health/ resiliency.

She is interested in applying to Pitt as a local option meeting her urban campus criteria, but I think she is just realizing now - due to the very high stats of friends that are getting accepted this fall - that this would not be a sure thing admit for her in any way. Because she has no interest in applying to Duquesne, for instance, I’m wondering whether someplace like Fordham would be the same (NYU/Pitt
 Fordham/Duquesne). My guess is because it’s in NYC, her interest level would be different :smile:
(She knows that there are some tuition exchange schools that are not options if tuition exchange or merit awards do not work out).

In general, it’s tough to know what is a “suitcase school” in a city with which we’re less familiar


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“I too have TE and I made my kids lists for them. They were free to veto schools and to add AFFORDABLE schools only.”

This is certainly an idea I had not thought of, but if it’s too overwhelming and “not fun” due to no UCLA, NYU, USC, BU, etc. - then, this is not a bad idea. Particularly if summer rolls around and no more than 1, 2, or 3 realistic schools have emerged. I would have to leave plenty of time for 90% of my list to be vetoed and replacements to be found :slight_smile:

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Fordham deserves to be explored based on its own merits, not just because it’s statistically easier to get into than NYU (and it may not be affordable for you which would make the exploration rather quick).

If your concerns around maturity, executive functioning, etc. are based on reality and not just parental worry (we all worry about this when we look at the goofy junior and think “this kid is going to do laundry and get up every morning to go to class?”) then the good news is that you’ve got time to course correct. If you are the “drag kid out of bed” parent- then stop doing it. Buy a $10 alarm clock which does not have a snooze button and put it at the far corner of her bedroom. She misses the bus? Oh well. It will take a week but problem solved.

The mental health stuff is more serious. But there is nothing sacrosanct about leaving home at age 18 if she’s not ready.

Urban and lots of majors- there are literally hundreds of these colleges. What are her stats?

The folks here can quickly tell you enough about a wide range of schools so you can figure out what is and is not a “suitcase school”. And there are “suitcase schools” in urban locations which aren’t really suitcase schools- kids live off campus in apartments, and they aren’t going home on the weekend, they’re doing cool stuff in the city they live in! So looking at the percentage of kids in dorms doesn’t mean everyone else is living with Mom and Dad


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This is a good start. Students can vary wrt how willing they are to accept a budget. We set a budget and stuck with it, and did not allow debt. This caused some friction with one daughter. Several years later after graduating university she thanked me (I think twice) for not allowing her to take on any debt for university.

Other than budget, and looking for a good fit, the other thing that comes to mind is the need to find at least one and preferably two safeties.

And there are a lot of universities that are in major cities (and a lot of major cities to choose from). Just NYC and Boston between the two of them have a very long list of universities. Which will be affordable for you and whether any will be a safety for both admissions and affordability might be good questions.

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“Fordham deserves to be explored based on its own merits, not just because it’s statistically easier to get into than NYU (and it may not be affordable for you which would make the exploration rather quick).”

Fordham would only be affordable on the off chance that tuition exchange was awarded. I recognize that it is a well-respected institution, but I’m originally a midwesterner - only been to NYC for 3 quick weekend trips, so my knowledge of all of the college options there is next to nothing.

In terms of colleges in cities, I have much more familiarity with schools in Chicago, Minneapolis, D.C., Philly, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, but not NYC.

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Fordham still has an acceptance rate in the mid 50% and is still pretty pricey. My daughter’s boyfriend went there when she was in HS, she had high stats but it was still too much money, even factoring the merit she would’ve received.

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I think our teens sound pretty similar. In fact, I would be the one, time-intensive EC might also have been musical theater? :slight_smile:

I’m betting that your flagship urban financial and acceptance safety was maybe Minnesota? Or perhaps OSU?

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Fordham has all the traditional liberal arts, a very well regarded business program which is particularly strong in finance, and some fantastic resources in the performing arts/film/multi-media studies. There are two campuses- one North of Manhattan in a leafy/gothic building part of the Bronx, and one near Lincoln Center (a huge performing arts center). There are shuttles to connect the two campuses as well as public transportation. Most students at Fordham take full advantage of New York City- internships, part time jobs, student rate (or free) tickets for theater, ballet, concerts; student rate (or free) admission to dozens of museums. Highly engaged faculty who really relish teaching undergrads; the college has a solid reputation for low bureaucracy/navigating the administration if that’s a concern (unlike NYU- which is a great place, but can be quicksand for kids who aren’t good at “adulting”.)

If her stats suggest it’s a fit (and the price is right) look at Macauley Honors, which is part of CCNY, the public university system of NYC.

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I am very fortunate in that both of my college bound kids did not have dream schools. They understood from the start that going away to college was a privilege and that budget was most important. At our high school, a huge majority of the kids stay very close to home (either instate or adjacent states) and my kids did not want that so they didn’t have peer pressure. They understood that I had much more understanding of TE and tuition costs than they did so they didn’t mind me starting a list for them to look at.

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My kids were pretty different when looking for schools, but one thing they both knew was the budget. Both wanted to go to school in California and I just said “This is the budget, how are you going to make it work?” They dropped the idea pretty quickly.

We were just dealing with basic numbers and I did help them find more money when the actual schools were picked. In your case, that would be the TE money if it is available, the student loan ($5500), any scholarship money you know of (we lived in FL so there were some state programs).

My kids knew if they’d only picked the unaffordable CA schools they would have had to take a gap year or gone to community college. The budget was fixed. Both were happy where they ended up. One went to an inexpensive OOS school (for theater, and it wasn’t in NYC) and the other to an expensive private school but got a merit scholarship and an athletic one that paid for most of her costs.

I don’t think you should do all the work to find colleges that meet her demands. I hope you help, but if you do all the work and it doesn’t work out she’ll blame you. Let her figure out that if she had $40, she can’t pick a school that costs $80k unless she figures out some scholarships and grants. I think it will be like a exploding star when SHE figures out there just isn’t enough money, that it might cost twice as much to live in NYC than Pittsburgh, that a great program with financial aid exists in a school just outside a city.

I know a number of people who loved NYC and always wanted to live there so moved there as a second career. Well, visiting NYC on an expenses account (restaurants, limo service, theater, sporting events) and having to pay for all the fun yourself are two different things. Moving from a 5000 sq foot house to a tiny apartment is an adjustment. A kid might be happy sharing a teeny tiny apartment but maybe not.

I’d shift the searching to her. And be okay with her taking a gap year if she doesn’t get accepted to anything she can afford.

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You may have too narrow a view and be the one who doesn’t understand what ‘college experience’ is or could be

May be instead of hoping someone else will reenforce what you want her to want you’ll take the time to appreciate what she does want and how it too can provide a vibrant engaged experience

(and what’s with the idea that exploring the real world shouldn’t happen when in college)?

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This is the typical response and yes, kids should be invested with understanding budget and debt. But I will be real, I’m not totally stupid but I hate financial stuff. I ask my husband to do certain money focused searches and tasks. Example, refinance mortgage, etc. My lack of searching for options does not make me less interested in the end result.

I started a list of schools for both my college bound kids. I basically took 6000 potential schools and narrowed it down to about 30 or 40 or so and handed them the paper. I personally don’t think kids need to do 100% of their college search to be committed.

Both my kids were very involved in sports and working paid jobs. My D25 right now goes to school at 7am, off at noon, heads to work until 7, then goes to dance practice till 9pm multiple days a week, and then comes home to do homework/shower/sleep. She volunteers on Saturday mornings and then goes to work. She often works Sunday nights as well. In between those times she did start looking at websites and social media pages for some schools to gain her own insight.

I work a hybrid job and am home often with little to no other time commitments. I am happy to be her secretary right now. I can’t do her homework, I can’t do her college essays, and I certainly will not choose her college for her. The only limit I put on the kids is budget (not location, size, etc). They each had a college app only email and I watch it and tell them when they have something important to look at and review.

Anyways, back on topic, the Tuition Exchange program itself requires parental involvement (as we need to help apply and pay fees, etc with our home institutions.) It is a quirky benefit and kids can’t navigate it alone.

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