I don’t live in a mega wealthy area, but I know plenty of mega wealthy folks through professional networks and the like.
Where do their kids go? SMU. Denison. Lehigh. Texas A&M. Santa Clara. Pepperdine.
Very occasionally you’ll hear about Princeton or Dartmouth, but it’s generally Princeton for a kid that everyone acknowledged was an off the charts intellectual from the time s/he was three, and Dartmouth for an athlete or just a ski nut/enthusiast. An artsy kid might choose Bard or Hampshire.
These people don’t need their kids clawing their way to get to fill in the blank prestigious school in order to get a job in finance so they can make $125K out the door. The kid is getting quarterly checks from the Family Office in excess of that. These families have different priorities from the “where is the best ROI” crowd because they don’t measure ROI by first year/five year earnings.
You think a billionaire is obsessing about “which is more prestigious- Jane Street or Citadel?” like the kids on CC or Reddit?
I think those parents who are hiring private counselors wil do anything to get their kids into the top schools - yea I do.
I think some - ie Felicity Huffman, Lori Laughlin and more got caught - but if you’re going to that extreme yes I do. And they’re just the ones caught I think counselors and schools market themselves implying these outcomes
They may end up at Santa Clara but Dartmouth was the hope.
That’s my belief.
do some hire someone bcuz they have no clue. But the ultra wealthy. Yes. I know one - did finance at Denver. The parents - severely disappointed it wasn’t a name brand.
There are all types and nothing is 100% but someone at a private, then getting a private counselor to boot, isn’t with the hope to go to Pepperdine or Colorado State….
But the counselors aren’t bragging about the really nice kid who likes to play tennis and volunteered at an animal shelter who ended up at Hofstra and not Harvard, right? Those kids are paying the bills for these counselors, but you sure aren’t hearing about them. Many of the kids at Fairfield and Muhlenberg landed at their last choice college- even with the counselor’s help- because the family believed (misguided or not) that the counselor could perform the magic that worked for the neighbor’s kid.
Okay, I do have a WSJ subscription, so I’m going to dig into some of the info a bit more. I don’t see how I can do a gift link to the area where there is more digging into the details, but I will share some of the stuff I’ve found interesting.
I looked at the colleges in the states that were primarily in the southeast (all but FL), plus one Mid-Atlantic state (PA ) that has representation here on CC.
So far, I’ve only dug in on the Student Experience category. Here’s the methodology, from WSJ:
The methodology for this ranking was developed and executed in collaboration with our research partners College Pulse and Statista. Throughout, we use the latest data available for analysis.
The WSJ/College Pulse Student Experience ranking scores colleges based on the following components. The weight each component is given in the ranking is indicated as a percentage.
Campus facilities (33%): Student satisfaction with the facilities available on campus, including those relating to food, housing and extracurricular activities, based on our student survey.
Community and social life (33%): Student satisfaction with the sense of community, emotional-health and mental-health support, safety on campus, and party scene, based on our student survey.
Diversity (33%): Diversity in terms of ethnicity, inclusion of students with lower family incomes, and inclusion of students with disabilities, all based on government data.
If you have any questions or feedback, get in touch with us at reports@wsj.com
Here’s a roll-up by state of some of the data:
State
# of Schools Included
Campus & Facility Score Range
Campus & Facility Score Average
Community & Social Life Score Range
Community & Social Life Score Average
Diversity Score Range
Diversity Score Average
AL
8
40-68
55.2
55-83
66.2
16-67
44.5
GA
20
38-75
56.1
54-80
67.2
9-100
64.4
LA
10
46-71
57
59-85
68.7
5-95
60.3
MS
5
52-62
57
63-74
70.2
20-70
41.2
NC
16
50-72
60.6
63-77
69.8
5-97
44.8
PA
36
43-68
55.4
58-78
67.7
1-94
41.7
SC
7
49-67
60.9
70-77
73.1
3-53
19.4
TN
16
52-68
59
62-81
69.4
7-92
39.3
VA
14
51-81
63.1
61-86
72
2-93
42.3
WV
2
57
57
61-71
66
18-42
30
In looking at the averages in the different categories from top state average to bottom state average, these were the spreads by category.
Campus & Facility Score Average
Community & Social Life Score Average
Diversity Score Average
Spread from Top to Bottom
7.9
7.1
45
Campus & Facility and Community & Social Life had pretty similar spreads (7.9 and 7.1, respectively) while Diversity had a spread nearly 6x larger (45 points).
The states with the top 3 diversity averages were Georgia (64.4), Louisiana (60.3), and North Carolina (44.8), while the states with the bottom 3 diversity averages were Tennessee (39.3), West Virginia (30), and South Carolina (19.4).
To give folks some specifics that we can talk about, I’ll share some of the component scores for two of the states, Virginia and Pennsylvania.
Here’s Virginia:
School
Campus Facilities Score
Community & Social Life Score
Diversity Score
Christopher Newport
65
69
11
George Mason
54
61
77
Hampden-Sydney
66
86
9
James Madison
77
81
5
Liberty U.
68
71
37
Old Dominion
57
62
90
Randolph-Macon
58
78
33
U. of Mary Washington
54
68
55
U. of Richmond
78
72
48
U. of Virginia
54
68
59
Virginia Commonwealth
51
61
93
Virginia Tech
64
75
33
Washington & Lee
81
83
2
William & Mary
57
73
42
Here’s Pennsylvania:
School
Campus Facilities Score
Community & Social Life Score
Diversity Score
Allegheny
61
66
58
Bucknell
59
78
33
Carnegie Mellon
49
65
65
Chatham
43
64
25
Dickinson
53
64
53
Drexel
47
59
61
Duquesne
52
69
5
Elizabethtown
56
69
48
Franklin & Marshall
51
64
73
Gettysburg
66
74
60
Haverford
57
68
94
Indiana U. of PA
56
66
54
Juniata
62
70
26
Kutztown
56
70
49
Lafayette
56
74
28
Lebanon Valley
51
66
9
Lehigh
60
76
19
Lycoming
43
59
27
Messiah
59
68
16
Muhlenberg
65
66
73
Penn State
59
72
23
Pennsylvania College of Technology
62
67
11
Slippery Rock
65
76
12
St. Francis
43
63
1
St. Joseph’s
50
62
21
Susquehanna
56
74
50
Swarthmore
62
59
94
Temple
57
58
89
Thomas Jefferson
43
63
56
U. of Pennsylvania
50
64
72
U. of Pittsburgh
56
69
34
U. of Scranton
68
78
9
Ursinus
54
66
84
Villanova
60
72
28
Washington & Jefferson
54
64
20
West Chester
53
75
22
Are there are any surprises on here? Scores that you think would be higher or lower than they are? Or are these a confirmation of what you’re familiar with?
It is interesting that “Student Experience” doesn’t include any academic components at all. Seems to me that academics are a large part of a student’s experience at a college. Is there some other category that rates things like teaching quality, teacher accessibility, classroom experience, etc?
I find the campus scores interesting because schools like JMU, CNU and Va Texh score highly on nicest campus polls or niche ratings for campus and they do here as well. I’ve been to 7 or 8 top LACs - Swat, Haverford, Bowdoin and more and none hold a candle to W&L.
But if you take two - for lack of a better classification - call them VA LACs - both line up in two of three categories. Diversity is different
UMW Is 55 for diversity. CNU 11. CNU is 68% white per CDS is 59% different but not hugely what drives that figure ? Race? Religion ? Gender ? Perceived wealth ? JMU is 75% white and Scored a 5.
I wonder how or why these schools attract as they do ??
Would point out that Washington and Lee has the highest score in either state. And this is consistent with what I know about the school and its culture.
Didn’t someone upthread already determine that the WSJ list is AI generated? So why dig into these numbers at all?
As for people using college/educational consultants, there seems to be a gross misunderstanding about who might consult one, and for what purpose. IMO, the wise parent/student is the one who realizes that they don’t know what they don’t know with this process, and want some assistance/guidance. Some consultants bill by the hour, some by the “package” (which may have varying components and price points). Some families want help with understanding the process and the timing, and assistance in learning about schools they have heretofore been unfamiliar with. Some just want help with essays, or organizing their activities list, or to also create a resume for internship opportunities, etc. The Varsity Blues scandal got so much attention because it was so outrageously egregious/illegal, the prices were off the rails and many of the names involved were well known. It is the exception, not the rule. One does not have to be “uber rich” to use/benefit from a consultant.
Sigh. You can go back and read old threads on W&L where I offered comparisons of W&L and other LACs. Guess what – with the notable exception of Amherst they were all within a percentage point or two of each other, even schools with very liberal reputations (eg Oberlin). My survey was not exhaustive, but I think proved my point.
Can’t tell if you are kidding, but I know lots of smart college admissions types who make mistakes like that… right on CC believe it or not. Not sure that supports that data was not properly sourced and checked.
The Chetty study reviewed portion of kids in top 1% at different colleges. While a disproportionately large portion attended Ivy+ colleges, Ivy+ colleges were generally not the ones with highest percentage. The top 3 were by percentage enrollment were Trinity (26%), Colorado (24%), and SMU (23%). In terms colleges with largest number of students from top 1% (colleges top 1% are most likely to attend), there was a good variety of college types. I’d estimate the top colleges were:
Colleges Kids from Top 1% Families Were Most Likely to Attend
This list raises an important point- which is how regional many of these patterns are.
I know a LOT of mega wealthy folks where SMU, A&M, UT, etc. are the pinnacle of achievement for their kids. You’re going to tell a wealthy family in suburban Dallas that Swarthmore is a prestigious school? Or that Amherst has a well deserved reputation for transitioning kids from disadvantaged backgrounds into a rigorous and elite college experience?
So prestige is in the eye of the beholder. The scion of a wealthy family in Boston has a completely different set of choices than his or her peer in Scottsdale. And not just old money vs. new, or Mayflower vs. self made although those are culturally relevant as well.
The diversity measure, as described by WSJ, is upthread and I will partially requote here:
So it appears as though it’s not just the presence of various ethnicities, but whether people feel as though the campuses are inclusive of diverse populations (including lower socioeconomic status and students with disabilities. It seems to be a bit like the Princeton Review list of which schools have lots of race interaction or class interaction and which schools have little race interaction or class interaction. It doesn’t do much good if there’s a diverse student body but they don’t hang out with each other much.
So, with that said, fireworks for whoever can guess which Georgia school got a 100 or which Louisiana school got a 95 on the diversity metric.
There is! It’s not as easy to find (it’s not its own separate category with a searchable tab, like Student Experience is), but under the overall ranking section in the methodology it mentions the learning environment (quoted below). So if I pull down the more info section for each ranked school (which is what I had to do to get the component scores for student experience), I can get the scores for these different learning environment components.
And the fact that the learning environment only accounts for 20% of a school’s score in the Best Colleges ranking goes to show one of the issues that I have with the methodology!
Learning environment (20%):
Learning opportunities (5%): The quality and frequency of learning opportunities at the college, based on our student survey. This includes questions about interactions with faculty, feedback and the overall quality of teaching.
Preparation for career (5%): The quality and frequency of opportunities for students to prepare for their future careers, based on our student survey. This includes questions about networking opportunities, career advice and support, and applied learning.
Learning facilities (5%): Student satisfaction with the college’s learning-related facilities, based on our student survey. This includes questions about library facilities, internet reliability, and classrooms and teaching facilities.
Recommendation score (5%): The extent to which students would recommend their college, based on our student survey. This includes questions about whether students would recommend the college to a friend, whether students would choose the same college again if they could start over, and satisfaction with the value for money their college provides.
I think it depends on the metric you’re looking at. For the data I shared, I included the scores, not the ranks. So the bigger the number, the better the performance, and the lower the number, the worse the performance.
W&L does have the highest score for campus & facilities (81) from either of the two states, and it has the second highest score for community & social life (83, compared to Hampden-Sydney’s 86). Its score of 2 for diversity is the second lowest, however, behind St. Francis’ score of 1.
My interpretation, too.
On that page that you linked, it also says this:
Q: How do you verify that the students/ alumni are eligible to participate?
A: To validate survey responses, undergraduate students and recent alumni will be asked at the end of the survey to enter their official school email address. They will then be emailed a four-digit verification code that they will be required to enter in the survey to submit their responses.
In case an undergraduate student or recent alumni does not have access to their university email, participants will be asked to share the year they graduated and their LinkedIn profile.
So, even though I might be able to fill out a survey, if I put a bogus AustenNut@CollegeName.edu email address, I would be unable to verify with the 4-digit verification code. And if I had LinkedIn, I wouldn’t have any alma mater but my own listed for the alternative verification method.
for whoever can guess which Georgia school got a 100 or which Louisiana school got a 95 on the diversity metric.