<p>I don’t keep track of personal zings–besides doing a cyber hi-five with myself if I catch one of the mighty pens in a grammatical faux pax. Those are BEAUTIFUL days! But in general, I aim for deflection, not counterattack–not unlike the main character in the movie Thank You For Not Smoking.</p>
<p>Once I realized the mighty conservative pens were human, I also determined the personal attacks were even. Actually, the mighty pens probably dodge bigger cowpies because their pens are so mighty, dammit. OTOH, posters who write in fragmented sentences or use exclamation points seem to draw big cowpies from the mighty pens of the right. That’s been my observation anyway. <em>deliberately inserts smiley face to annoy the mighty pens</em> :)</p>
<p>And I can tell you why the 19 year olds are here. They are here for the same reson that I went to New York when I was their age. They are sharpening their writing and opinion talent against a top notch group. My 20 year old is only tangentially attached to a cyber community as he uses facebook as an address book. My 17 year old is building a business by tapping into his cyber community. He’s hired animators from Croatia, illustrators from Japan, composers from Portugal and so on. Those are his cyber people and he’s living amongst them. I’m flattered that a kid with the intellectual firepower of FS chooses to post. I LOVE to see her 19 year old mind at work. I love it that she shares her intellectual and literary explorations. </p>
<p>In any event, I want to point out that the conversation on this thread parallels a larger global conversation. From Gerard Baker in The Times of London</p>
<p>Going back to an earlier Doris Lessing cyber-pondering, I am drawn to this line The traumas of the first half of the 20th century have combined with the economic successes of the second half to induce a collective loss of will. </p>
<p>Most memory-challenged boomers don’t think about the traumas of the first half of the centry, but I wonder if aftershocks from those traumas are, in fact, responsible for the demise of polite political conversation in America.</p>
<p>The article focuses on Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali who wrote the script for the film “Submission” directed by Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh. He was murdered by an Islamic terrorist who objected to the film’s subject matter.</p>
<p>Pardon the total hijack digs, but DR, I believe America has the ‘drive’ to innovate because it puts BIG money in it’s university gas tank to get to ‘innovative’ destinations. Europe invests approximately 1/3 of what America invests in university education and research. Whether or not Branson’s $4B investment will ignite a fire under Europe’s investment powers-that-be, I don’t know.</p>
<p>It seems that higher education might be of interest to people in the Middle East. Here’s an al Jazeera article that attributes Europe’s education woes to class bias, a lack of accountability, and perhaps by implication to inadequate funding:
<p>I know very little about higher education in Western Europe, other than I know the top tier British universities are well-regarded. It’s interesting that you attribute some or all of American success and European problems to their respective university systems. I agree that education is important and I think part of America’s success is due to compulsory public education. However, I’m not sure I agree that college is the most important part of education or research.</p>
<p>They’re just as childish as the ones I experienced at UCLA and on the more “plebian” sites. But the language is a bit better, and people tend to know where to put semicolons.</p>
<p>So what we get is really well-written crap. It’s crap, but at least it’s fun to read. I suppose when it comes to religion or politics, it’s the best we can hope for. </p>
<p>Oh, and I guess like everyone else, it’s time for the witticism moment suprême, ne? And though I could be pretentious and use something Latin or German, I’ll instead use Japanese…</p>
<p>Google couldn’t translate English into English.</p>
<p>But kluge, you realize that EVERYONE puts a quip at the end of their post around here, right? Hell, even I’ve fallen into the oneupsmanship claptrap.</p>
<p>What bugs me about forums is that they tend not to focus on SUBSTANCE but instead STYLE. Wait, I mean life in general…But anyway, yeah, forums. The point is, we shouldn’t be praising people who come in and flaunt only style. It’s like if one of the candidates for a political office walked in with a gorgeous boquet of orchids (I LIKE ORCHIDS, okay?) And instead of engaging in debate, the candidate handed orchids to everyone in the office. But here’s the kicker: everyone praises him at the end as the winner of the debate!</p>
<p>That’s what we do around here. Driver and FS and a team of sorts and AM and TD and a team of sorts engage in oneupsmanship. They duke it out, weaving back in forth in a verbal tournament, where the true winner is the one who gets more kudos for how witty they were.</p>
<p>And at the end, it has NOTHING to do with the topics. Usually, the most interesting material is the initial link-- and by the way, I must praise driver for some of her links. After that initial page or so, it always follows the same pattern of zinger-battle.</p>
<p>Sure, it’s fun. I won’t deny it. I enjoy the sort of t</p>
<p>I am certainly with sin, and I snap the towel at all, including myself.</p>
<p>Let’s just be realistic with out expectations, that’s all. This isn’t a grand salon, where Rousseau might drop in and enlighten us all with philosophies of kings. It’s a forum where some people run around and zing each other and giggle behind a keyboard.</p>
<p>But still, the latter is more fun anyway. You can do it in your bathrobe!</p>
<p>screens all over the world being wiped off right now thanks to mootmom But don’t think I’m praising you for flaunting your style. I want substance, dammit–something French.</p>
<p>As I see it, this is not a nerd fest, nor is it Firing Line nor “Meet The Press.” It is rather a diverse group of people; intelligent and concerned, but with middling, non-professional political & cultural where-with-all. That is to say, we/they think about and write about what most people talk about–only they tend to write better than most people talk. They/we are highly literate and as this is all attempted in the form of undigested writing, the writing is often of special interest and delight to the rhetorical gourmand. As is the pithy comeback and quip: Think Groucho, not Spock.</p>
<p>Those seeking facts and in depth analysis should look elsewhere to affect their bit of world refurbishment. This is a place for real people to act normal, only better. It is not the WSJ, Scientific American, Better Homes & Garden or the Harvard Review of Businesses or, most importantly, not a Star Trek convention (sorry boys).</p>
<p>Most are anonymous (I am not) and feel a bit more courage, spit and vinegar running through their circuits than they are accustomed to at the local PTO meeting, bowling alley, country club or soup kitchen. </p>
<p>It’s great as is, if not quite all things to all men. Warp Speed ahead!</p>
<p>I disagree UCLAri. Some political threads do have an aspect of salon to them. Some are mere poo slings, but some are genuine discussions with global perspectives that are as interesting and informative as anything in the WSJ or The Independent. No doubt posters want to continue on with the fun of clever poo slinging, but there is value in attempting to elevate at least a few political discussions to salon level in order to tempt some worthy contributors such as marite.</p>
<p>That marite doesn’t contribute is a loss to the community intellect, in my opinion.</p>