<p>Don’t the Republicans face a conundrum when it comes to the high court? On the one hand, conservatives want to go after Roe v. Wade; it’s the holy grail for much of the far right. On the other hand, actually pursuing and overturning Roe would likely alienate much of the middle, the sort of volatile voters (soccer moms and such) who helped give Bush his two slim victories. Like the Democrats before them, the Republicans have already been hurt a bit by their over-reaching (Social Security, Iraq, ethics rules, nuclear option); it will be interesting to see how they manage things as we move forward.</p>
<p>Fountainsiren… it’s the conservative woman who acquiesce and accept that rich white men should run things because somehow that’s what they’ve been taught, whether by religion or one’s parent’s culture. Conservativism (at least neo-conism) is not good for woman. That’s why I wrote that story before…been there done that, know better now. They don’t run things better. I have a son and I’ve taught him to believe in helping others and equality and protecting the environment and that corporations are not people and are not qualified to dictate all the laws of the country just because they’re all rich white men and can pay off everyone in government. We all REALLY are or should be equal. It’s by the people, for the people, not for rich corporations who want to send your jobs overseas and tell you that its a REALLY GREAT IDEA AND GOOD FOR YOU. AND it’s great that they have headquarters off shore so they don’t have to pay taxes, it’s good for you, too. They can give more money to the investors then. Of course instead the CEO gets millions…very often for doing a bad job. Even though it’s the investors money, it’s not stealing, it’s attracting quality candidates for CEO…and that’s good for you too. It’s all a lie. A real conservative would not go for big deficits. You’re too young to know this is all a sham and not good for real people at all. This administration is counting on people not noticing what is really going on and not noticing it’s all a lie. Repeat something enough and people will believe it and believe its really good for them. You, as a woman have more at stake than men. When you have children you won’t want them sent overseas on a fool’s mission. You don’t want to be a second class citizen with no representation on the courts… You just don’t understand it yet, but conserativism today is only good for rich white men.
AND the courts…wait for more issues to come up that will matter to you. When things are taken away, that you take for granted it will be too late to wish we had different judges. You seem to read a lot of religious writings and beautiful poems…perhaps more practical history might serve you better. Start by reading about Neo-cons, not conservativism. They’re wolves in sheep’s clothing.</p>
<p>Didn’t I read somewhere that Roe regrets the decision now, years later? Yet the media gave very little play to this news item…either way I am a conservative, but know full well that it will never be overturned. It would take 50 years of stacking the court the way the liberals stacked the court. So all you liberals should relax and look for other fish to fry. That is one law that will not be overturned in my lifetime…</p>
<p>songman, </p>
<p>I agree with you, but I’m not interested in whether the law will be overturned or not–that question seems obvious and tedious to me. What’s interesting is the question of strategy: How does the Republican establishment deal with the folks who really want to pursue Roe?</p>
<p>Lauras,</p>
<p>I’m sorry if I seemed harsh in my defending Pafathers gender in light of your ad hominem attack (he certainly does not need my defense). The problem, for me, was that rather than critiquing his argument or view you simply said:</p>
<p>you’re a man. Need I say more</p>
<p>It reminded me of one of your comments about me:</p>
<p>Everyone here who is arguing with Fountain Siren must remember you are arguing with a 17 year old, Albeit one who is articulate. You can be a very smart 17 year old and still have no actual understanding of the real world</p>
<p>Though it is true that Pafather is a man and I am 17, I dont see that it follows that either of us must be wrong because of it. I suppose there may even be some men or 17 year olds who would share your view; would your view necessarily become wrong in the mind of a man or a 17 year old? And if not, what difference does it make that either Pafather is a man or I am 17?</p>
<p>Your previous post was 379 words (I checked) and I am happy to see that you needed not one ad hominem to make your points. For us, I consider this a meeting of minds at least in principal.</p>
<p>Mini, you sound like a libertarian to me. I have been talking to some libertarian young people…it seems to be the big wave (though not among my own progeny). It may be the key to bringing together disgruntled Republicans and frustrated Democrats – the people who are mad about gay marriage and the ones who are furious about Guantanamo. </p>
<p>Re Roberts, can anybody tell me how he comes across as such an incredibly nice, low-key guy? He is the most fast-tracked person I’ve ever heard of. Did he mellow out late in life? Or did he just take a lesson out of The Right Stuff?</p>
<p>Here is his wife’s bio, in case anybody’s interested: <a href=“http://www.pillsburylaw.com/Go/bios.nsf/professionals/Jane%20Sullivan%20Roberts[/url]”>http://www.pillsburylaw.com/Go/bios.nsf/professionals/Jane%20Sullivan%20Roberts</a>
CNN reports that their two adorable children were adopted…Anti-choice Andrew Sullivan uses this as a plug for “non-procreative” marriage: <a href=“http://www.andrewsullivan.com/[/url]”>http://www.andrewsullivan.com/</a> 
Maybe things are not as polarized as they seem…</p>
<p>Here’s hoping Rehnquist hangs on long enough that we can get a Democrat into the White House who will name either Clinton to the Court!</p>
<p>Communitarian would be closer - I tend toward the small-worlder, anti-corporate capitalist end of the spectrum when it comes to economic matters (I see corporate capitalism as the arch-enemy of democracy), because of having witnessed the pillaging at the bottom of the economic foodchain firsthand. But when it comes to social matters, I think I am truly conservative, unlike the neo-Stalinist Right.</p>
<p>aren’t people barely older than me too young to be nominated for the Supreme court?
( and all doctors should look like Marcus Welby unless they look like Luka Kovac) ;)</p>
<p>Mini, are you with these people? <a href=“404 Page Not Found | The George Washington University”>404 Page Not Found | The George Washington University; They sound to me as though they’re onto something. “In the late 1980s, a growing number of academicians and social commentators began to notice a breakdown in the moral fabric of society. Attributing this condition to an excessive emphasis on individualism in the public sphere, they recognized the need for a social philosophy that at once protected individual rights and attended to corresponding responsibilities to the community. Transcending the stalemate between left and right, this new ‘responsive communitarian’ philosophy articulated a middle way between the politics of radical individualism and excessive statism.”
and this, of interest to parents:
"We must insist once again that bringing children into the world entails a moral responsibility to provide, not only material necessities, but also moral education and character formation.</p>
<p>"Moral education is not a task that can be delegated to baby sitters, or even professional child-care centers. It requires close bonding of the kind that typically is formed only with parents, if it is formed at all.</p>
<p>"Fathers and mothers, consumed by ‘making it’ and consumerism, or preoccupied with personal advancement, who come home too late and too tired to attend to the needs of their children, cannot discharge their most elementary duty to their children and their fellow citizens. </p>
<p>"It follows, that work places should provide maximum flexible opportunities to parents to preserve an important part of their time and energy, of their life, to attend to their educational-moral duties, for the sake of the next generation, its civic and moral character, and its capacity to contribute economically and socially to the commonweal. Experiments such as those with unpaid and paid parental leave, flextime, shared jobs, opportunities to work at home, and for parents to participate as volunteers and managers in child-care centers, should be extended and encouraged.</p>
<p>“Above all, what we need is a change in orientation by both parents and work places. Child-raising is important, valuable work, work that must be honored rather than denigrated by both parents and the community.”</p>
<p>Of course, Etzioni has been around and talking about community for ages. I hadn’t realized this had become a movement. (Or has it?) I thought I was all by myself over here, mumbling this stuff… I signed up for the e-list (as though I need more stuff in my inbox, omg).</p>
<p>
This neatly sums up the difference between the conservative view of the courts and the liberal view. Conservatives believe that the “rules” should be made the democratic way - via an elected legislative body. Liberals think that it is the role of the judiciary to make the rules. </p>
<p>If Roberts turns out to be an actual conservative, you need not fear he and his conservative peers on the court making “mean” rules. If you find any rules to be mean, you can take it up with your elected representatives. It’s that old fashioned notion of “democracy”.</p>
<p>However, on the topic of “mean” rules, I think two of the most recent SC decisions could be considered “mean”: the medical marijuana issue and the ability to allow private corporations to seize your property with government complicity. Both of these decisions were made by the liberal wing of the court.</p>
<p>“Mini, are you with these people? <a href=“404 Page Not Found | The George Washington University”>404 Page Not Found | The George Washington University; They sound to me as though they’re onto something.”</p>
<p>Believe it or not, I knew Etzioni when I was in high school. I am with them as far as children and moral education goes, and if you were to read my homeschooling stuff, you’d immediately see the similarities. Where we would part company is I see corporate capitalism as antithetical to the kinds of democratic community and education that communitarians advance, both on an individual, community, and global basis. the emphasis on individualism is no accident in corporate capitalist culture, as organized families and communities are a threat. </p>
<p>I was the founder of New Society Publishers, and while I no longer work with them directly (I write instead), much of what they publish is a direct reflection of what I would like to be about - see <a href=“http://www.newsociety.com%5B/url%5D”>www.newsociety.com</a></p>
<p>Founding Father…I totally agree with you about the last two decisions you mentioned. As a liberal I, unlike the neo-cons, see shading in everything (believe it or not) The taking of property, the ruling against medical marijuana made me very upset. I also am for secure borders and not letting in all immigrants so that we can pay for them while they are illegal. It took a lot for my husband to become a green card holder and citizen, and he was able to earn a good living. The only reason the Neo-con and corps want the immigrants from the south let in is because it’s cheap labor! Again, always a selfish reason, never for anyone’s good! It’s many of Bush’s followers that don’t think for themselves, they will echo him like the grand canyon on almost anything he says, even when reason dictates they should be running the other way.
As for a liberal court…sorry, we haven’t had one yet. There are many conservatives and moderates influencing outcomes, But it is weird the sides that the SC judges come down on sometimes. I’m more willing to put myself in the hand’s of liberals.</p>
<p>Fountain siren…My husband, son and many other men are liberal, too. But many neo-cons are chicken hawks. and fake macho men who don’t always respect woman and seem to hunger for war. Most women in their camp are more likely to acquiese and tow the conservative line, probably because of the way they were brought up and perhaps they like thinking someone will take care of them…but I say…put no trust in corps and neo cons to do anything good for you!!! Look at the way the red states bought into trickle down economics and big tax cuts for the rich, when they were hurt by it! There we go again…More and more money to those ceo’s. As for 17 year olds having opinions…see me in 36 years and tell me you haven’t grown, changed and have far more perspective. It’s almost as bad as when we thought “don’t trust anyone over 30”. All young people ALWAYS think they know everything. I think when you’re 53 you know you don’t know everything, because life is really too complex to be positive about what you know. I don’t mean to be hard on you…but I seem to have it in my head that I have to save you from your own ideas. I managed to convert our neighbor’s child to very liberal from being brought up by conservative parents. There’s always hope for a better future in my mind… BTW You are incredible in your communication and writing skills and I have no doubt you are one of smartest 17 year olds around. It’s a great start. I just want to get you over from the “dark” side into the “light”.</p>
<p>And mini…there is a fine line between libertarian, communitarian and liberals. My friend and I were having a bit of rough time after she married a libertarian…we met for coffee…and what do you know…she and I agreed about tons of things…including letting Schiavo go, ending torture, encouraging stem cell research, being pro-choice…and more. We were able to find common ground because we were open to real discussions…not just the echoing of a delusional president like many on Fox and in the red states and ON THIS SITE.</p>
<p>“And mini…there is a fine line between libertarian, communitarian and liberals.”</p>
<p>It’s not so “fine” when it comes to economics. Liberals and conservatives have far, far more in common with each other in that realm, although liberals tend to be much more muddled in their thinking. Both subscribe to the religion of growth, and both tend to be interventionists in the market. Liberals believe that a higher percentage of the gains made possible by that growth should be raked off for social benefits; Conservatives tend to believe that those benefits come from growth itself. Liberals fight among themselves regarding both the level of the rake-off, and the way to use it - there is no coherent theory or practice (which is why they often lose.).</p>
<p>Liberals tend toward being intellectually bankrupt; Conservatives morally bankrupt. Most of my friends are one or the other. ;)</p>
<p>A few facts regarding “trickle down economics”, “tax cuts for the rich”, and “more and more money to those ceos”: in early June the Congressional Budget Office released its report on tax revenue collections that showed Federal tax revenues surging in the first eight months of this fiscal year by $187 billion - a 15.4% rise in federal tax receipts over 2004. Individual and corporate income tax receipts are up 30% in the two years since Bush’s tax cut. </p>
<p>How could this happen if the rates were cut? It happened because, as President Bush aptly predicted, it set off a chain reaction of higher economic growth, increased jobs, greater corporate profits, resulting in more tax receipts. </p>
<p>Tax cuts not only benefit the individual - they benefit all of us because of the increased economic growth attached to them. Tax cuts are a good thing. Enjoy!</p>
<p>browninfall,</p>
<p>You must be completely mistaken. How dare you fight UNFAIRLY (i.e. by citing objective facts). Lauras50 has already determined that tax cuts must necessarily be evil, because they were implemented predominantly by white MEN! Get with the program! You need to review moveon.org or some other “moderate” web site so that you do not just end up parroting all of that conservative drivel. You act like the truth really matters! What are you, some type of neo-Nazi?</p>
<p>This is how Roe vs Wade will be “overturned”…various states will create laws that restrict access to abortions…those cases will then be taken to the Supreme Court and UPHELD, thus making Roe vs Wade mute…so it will be a process, state by state, so no direct attack on the law…a very effective tactic that may, unfortuneatly, work</p>
<p>Going directly to the Case itself would be too obvious…</p>
<p>And in some states, getting birth control is getting more difficult, and those cases will also go to the Supreme Court…and with the current and future make up of the court, I can see women’s rights getting further eroded.</p>
<p>And, yes, perhaps there are some more jobs, but in what kind of areas, and they are often parttime, so no insurance, and talk to the people that are working…no insurance, and cuts in essential programs left and right</p>
<p>And I don’t know about you, but gee, I am spending my tax cut on that extra pool and sports car, of course that is after paying my mortage, my insurance, my GAS, and buying food…</p>
<p>And at a time of war, tax cuts are real smart…</p>
<p>It is so not true that Liberals don’t believe in democracy…where did that come from, yet another generlization… but why doesn’t that suprise me…</p>
<p>I am going to research Roberts- there are so many more issues besides choice- business owners responsibilites, the environment, affirmative action, women’s rights, the Endangered Species Act, Schools, the Death penalty, drugs, gay marriage, legal marijauna, elections- ie voting boxes, access to voting, </p>
<p>The Roe Vs Wade issue, while extremely important can distract from many other issues</p>
<p>citygirlsmom </p>
<p>Should I infer that you would have preferred that tax revenues didn’t go up as significantly as they did, and that you’re disappointed that the government’s tax receipts are as high as they are?</p>
<p>That would make you a small government conservative - one who believes that the government is taking too much of the nation’s wealth for itself. Good for you.</p>
<p>No inferring please</p>
<p>No, I just think that the money should have been spent better, if you look that the costs of the war, the missing money, to overpayment to private contractors while our troops are lacking…</p>
<p>And with service cut so much, I don’t trust the numbers…sorry, they look good, but when my government says they will not help states with security- for trains, etc, well, I wonder…if we have sooo much money, why don’t we protect our ports, fix our schools, get health care for people…</p>
<p>And, please do not read into what I said and turn it…my point was that MY tax cut was a joke…and that if taxes are going to be cut, do not do it in a time of war…that is ridiculus…and the economy isn’t that great</p>
<p>Lets take a look- jobs cuts at:</p>
<p>GM
HP
Kodak
Ford
Pfizer
Honeywell
PNC Bank
Macromedia</p>
<p><a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/06/news/economy/job_cuts/[/url]”>http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/06/news/economy/job_cuts/</a></p>
<p>so more jobs?</p>