K-12 State Standardized Tests

Parent Cafe
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<p>I heard a program today discussing about state standardized tests. In Massachusetts, we have the MCAS and tons of people complained that we should discontinue them because it only encourages teachers to “teach to the test”. Personally, I took the tests in 30 minutes and doodled on my test the rest of the 2.5 hour time limit until I could leave (as did the rest of the class). I’m not a very smart student (had a 3.06 GPA) but I’m at a good school system and no teacher I’ve ever had has sad “we need to learn this because it’s on the MCAS”. They just taught what we needed to know and we learnt it. I think that we need a way to see whether our high schoolers can even read or write or know stuff that they should by the time they graduate and standardized tests are the best way to do so. </p>

<p>What do you think about state standardized tests?</p>

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<p>*What do you think about state standardized tests?
*</p>

<p>I think that if class sizes are small enough to be manageable, if teachers are carefully screened when hired for competency and intelligence & if the curriculum supports learning standards- then standardized tests are a waste of time and money.</p>

<p>The teachers should be able to know if students are learning the material- after all, they are the ones in the classroom.</p>

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<p>I think the states don’t have a choice about this. Most use their state standardized test to fulfill the NCLB “adequate yearly progress” criteria. </p>

<p>I have to say…if the state tests are well designed, they can actually IMPROVE instruction by requiring schools to teach things the kidlets NEED to know.</p>

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<p>I have heard the MCAS called the “gold standard” for NCLB tests.</p>

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<p>I have seen kids that have passed the MCAS tests that couldn’t do some fairly basic operations. Perhaps they had a little “help” from teachers or the teachers just emphasized storing the test information in short-term memory to take the test.</p>

<p>I agree that teaching in small groups and knowing the kids and whether or not they know what you are trying to convey is a better approach. I’d guess that the priciest private schools do this.</p>

<p>Superintendents in our state cringe when a new kid moves into the district - if they are way behind, then they can negatively impact state standardized tests scores. If they wind up in need of improvement, it can kick off a lot of required things that cost money and time and detract from learning.</p>

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<p>I believe that you can get a lot wrong on a MCAS test and still pass; not quite sure what the passing percentage is.</p>

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<p>I think some sort of state assessment test is a necessary evil, at least as long as there isn’t a national assessment test. I am not at all in favor of “teaching to the test,” but I am absolutely in favor of figuring out whether kids are actually learning core things, and for that you have to have SOME sort of test. Ideally, scores should follow the kid, so that a school district should not be penalized for having a low-scoring kid if he is doing better now than he did before.</p>

<p>I few years ago, my son and I both took a beta version of our state’s 11th grade math test. At the time he was in 10th grade and I hadn’t taken a math test of any type in 30 years (12th grade). It was a 50-question test designed to take an hour. My son finished it in 10 minutes, and got three wrong, all careless errors. It took me 18 minutes to finish – my standardized test-taking skills were rusty, too; I spent four minutes on one question before realizing that I didn’t need to solve the equation to answer the question – but I only got two answers wrong, both because I wasn’t familiar with the vocabulary being used.</p>

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<p>My then 4th grade daughter got a “needs improvement” on her math MCAS.</p>

<p>It was a wake up call for us - we investigated the math curriculum in our well-regarded school district and learned they used a program that didn’t believe in teaching math facts.</p>

<p>We started to work with our girls at home, something we never would have known to do if it wasn’t for the test.</p>

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<p>If we could solve the problem of states that don’t think we should teach evolution and the like, I’d far prefer a national test. As it stands now some states have really easy assessment tests and others have much more difficult ones. I think the NYS tests are pretty good - most of the tests both in elementary school and high school have short answers and essays in addition to the multiple choice questions. They ensure that curriculum doesn’t get too watered down - or at least that people know what the curriculum ought to be. I can’t figure out why Mississippi’s children don’t need to be as well educated as ones in NY and I think that with the mobility of our society more rather than less commonalities in our public education system would be a good idea.</p>

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<p>I can’t figure this out either. And the sheer inefficiency of having 50 states separately figure out what should be taught, when, with what standards, and with what tests to measure that achievement drives me insane. Can you imagine running a business in which you had 50 different operating companies who all did it differently?</p>

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<p>Standards are a complete waste of time and money in their current form. They do nothing but dumb down all the advanced kids and make the ones falling behind look like they’re not.</p>

<p>I live in VA. We have the SOLs. I know kids who pass SOLs in subjects that they’re failing miserably just because the tests are so easy. They don’t know the material. They don’t need to. They can pass the tests anyway.</p>

<p>I know someone who guessed on the entire Chemistry SOL and still passed it even though his grade in the class was in the 30’s. He learned nothing in the class. Nothing.</p>

<p>I know kids passing English SOLs who can barely write complete sentences with correct grammar. Essays? Forget it. </p>

<p>Critical Thinking has been de-emphasized in order to make sure everyone is “able to pass certain standards.” Low standards. </p>

<p>In other words, if you’re a regular level student, but a good student who wants to learn, you will learn nothing but how to pass the SOL. </p>

<p>You can escape it by taking Dual Enrollment and APs, in which you learn more, but some people aren’t that advanced. They want to learn, but they’re not up for classes that rigorous.</p>

<p>So they get stuck in the “dumb downed” classes. It’s rather pathetic. </p>

<p>If you want to learn but aren’t a good enough to take super hard advanced classes, then you get left behind. </p>

<p>I read an article recently about how remedial classes were on the rise in college, especially at community colleges.</p>

<p>Kids who graduated from high school with high GPAs, passed all their standards–can’t do basic math, basic English. </p>

<p>I’m sorry, but this needs to be fixed. If students are falling behind in school, don’t make the tests easier so they can pass. You need to have adequate standards. I don’t see that happening in school right now.</p>

<p>Students who want to go college should have adequate high school classes to prepare them. Even if you’re going straight into the work force or military, you still need to have basic communication and mathematical skills.</p>

<p>There’s really no excuse. They started to go in the right direction: we need standards. And then they screwed it up. </p>

<p>What good are standards if they’re too low to actually determine true proficiency?</p>

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<p>Well the next step is: HOW do we fix this?</p>

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<p>SOLs are hideous. I could write pages and pages of horror stories.
This is one of my most irritating as it shows how VA uses these tests in a way that does not benefit student or teachers.
Sixth grade math SOL. A student who is on the ‘advanced math track’ scores 2pts below ‘Pass Advanced’. Because of 2 point on one test on one day that student is removed from the ‘advanced math track’. The straight A’s the student earned that year is not taken into consideration (as well as consistently high Math grades/SOLs in previous years). Because of this the student will not take Algebra in 8th grade. If that student wants to take Calc in high school (and be competitive in college admissions) the student will need to take a year of math during summer school. The student is not allowed to do this until the year between 9th & 10th grade. This also delays elective tracks that require math pre-req’s. Interestingly, this student received a perfect score on the 8th grade SOL. Not 100th percentile. Zero wrong. It is my opinion that the decision made based on 2 points for this student was incorrect and ignored other factors.
This is just ONE example, but shows the idiocy of how SOLs are now being used in VA.</p>

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<p>^See, that’s another problem with standards, especially in math. You make one careless math mistake and get more than 5 wrong (aka, less than “advanced”), it disrupts the rest of your school career. </p>

<p>Class grades should take precedence when it comes to your track in school.</p>

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<p>It is important to mention the emotional effect it had on this student. Feeling like you are being held-back, when you have consistently earned A’s, and high marks from teachers, sends students a very conflicting message.</p>

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<p>I like them. My younger son had much better early instruction in writing and I attribute this directly to the testing. I know it is true - the teaching to the test is the only reason he was given specific instruction in writing and lots of writing practice. Furthermore, the test is only used to make sure the standard curriculum is taught. My older son’s curriculum was dependant upon which teacher he was assigned in grade school. I felt this was totally unfair, especially since asking for a particular teacher was always terribly frowned upon. I am in favor of a standardized curriculum. The way you make sure said curriculum is being taught is to test. Hence teaching to the test is teaching the approved curriculum.</p>

<p>Now, how these tests are used by administrators is another story altogether. To use a 2 point short on a math standardized test to retrack a student shows that the administration is clueless in math and statistical uncertainty. They should be fired!</p>

<p>Also, how the teachers and administration speak about the tests is very very important. If they put the test down and don’t use interesting methods to teach strategies for test taking, they are incompetent and are wasting important educational opportunities.</p>

<p>If they don’t teach kids to eat well, sit up straight, put feet flat on the floor and take a few deep breaths before a test, they are wasting teachable moments. If they don’t teach kids explicitly that there are many opportunities to succeed on the tests and that the tests are just as much about checking up on how well the school and teachers are teaching, and if they lay it all on the students, then bah.</p>

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<p>This is a big bugaboo of mine. In California, it’s a colossal waste of money. Kids are tested every year from 2nd through 11th grade. It’s especially galling in 11th grade as it comes right before AP tests and right after some SAT tests. The state could save a ton of money by testing once in elementary, once in middle and once in high school.</p>

<p>I also think it is time for a national standard, but there are a lot of other areas that need improvement, too.</p>

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<p>Hugcheck- in your experience your student benefited from a standard of teaching. I honestly respect that in your case it was a positive thing. I am not familiar with the testing you are speaking of so I can’t make a judgement.
I can say that in VA administrators, teachers, and even parents are using these tests in ways that do not benefit the education system as a whole or the student as an individual. The terms are not universal. Had the student I spoke of in my previous post been at a neighboring school he would not have been moved. This is not a universal policy. It is not a universal policy for high school student who have SOLs in a subject and ‘pass’ their May SOLs to be exempt from their final exams in that class. Pass advance will earn you a grade of 100 on your final exam. Again, this is not done all over VA but some schools do use the SOL in this way.
In my opinion these are examples of ways that standardized tests are not being used to the students advantage.</p>

<p>niftydesign makes an excellent point regarding the 11th grade SOLs. I have seen many students in tears by June, having gone from SATs, AP exams, SOLs, SAT2s, ACTs, & final exams. These kids are fried. The last thing they need is another round of tests.</p>

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<p>PA is always changing. We have PSSA tests in 5th, 8th, and 11th, but now they are going to phase in subject tests that students would take after algebra, geometry, biology, etc. My S took the 11th grade PSSAs this spring in the midst of all the other tests, but they are so easy that it didn’t cause him any extra stress. He took them in math, reading, english, and science. Our juniors usually do very poorly on the science part, so I am curious to see the results.</p>

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<p>blueiguana, are the tests really that hard if they’ve been prepared for SAT or AP exams? At my high school, nobody took MCAS’s seriously since we’d already taken tougher tests. We all breezed through it and laughed about it later. </p>

<p>If you’re prepared for SAT’s and AP tests there should be no reason to stress out about state examinations. The kids that do need to worry about the state tests aren’t going to be taking AP exams.</p>