<p>" schools and communities to get them out of their jobs that they are inproperly doing, does not mean that those military recruiters who are doing their jobs should be harassed in this duty."</p>
<p>If doing their jobs means overtly or covertly committing fraud, and knowingly leading unsuspecting minors to believe things which are not true, they should not only be harrassed, they should be forcibly removed (and tried for conspiracy under the RICO statutes.)</p>
<p>I agree with whomever said that the folks who join the military without demanding that anything be in writing or spelled out is actually more prepared than those students who think that if something is in writing the military can be held to it- the military decideds what it will be held to and under which guidelines it operates. It doesn’t matter if something is in writing if we are at war.
In our area recently several local soldiers have been killed, especially poignant is one soldier who was just shy of finishing his tour, had a just a couple more weeks to go- they told him if he reenlisted he wouldn’t have to go back to Iraq but he told them he wanted to get on with his life and go to college, so go ahead and send him back. They did, but he won’t be coming back.</p>
<p>I have no qualms about booting out unscrupulous military recruiters or anyone who is acting inappropriately. I advocate that absolutely. But all recruiters do not behave in that manner. There are many, most who are doing their jobs and doing so appropriately. Those should have a fair chance to present their case. The school, community and parents should educate the kids to ask the appropriate questions and avoid being flimflammed. There are going to many people and propositions kids are going to have to assess in their lives, and military service is not the worst of them, given that there is time to back out of a commitment, it is legal, it is honorable, it can be the best choice a kid can make. Far worst choices a kid will have to make with worse ramifications. I am not advocating the military in any way or form other than it can be a good choice for some. Get rid of the bad eggs, report them. Let the presentations be given in the schools in a structured forum under the supervision of the teachers, school staff, members of the community and parents.</p>
<p>“The school, community and parents should educate the kids to ask the appropriate questions and avoid being flimflammed.”</p>
<p>The responsibility is not to flimflam, not to avoid being flimflammed. When promises are made in the negotiation of an employment contract, even when such promises are made orally, and not carried out, those making the promises are both civilly or criminally liable (criminally, if there is intent to defraud.) I don’t at all believe that it is a problem of unscrupulous recruiters - though I believe there is that, too. I believe the problem is recruiters scrupulously going about their business.</p>
<p>let the presentations be given in the schools in a structured forum under the supervision of the teachers, school staff, members of the community and parents.</p>
<p>I don’t have any problem with that
I actually voted to allow them on campus, the choice wasn’t to monitor them or not, it was to allow them on campus or not even though that was a moot point.
I don’t think it is helping anyone espcially the kids to come out so stridently against any recruiters on campus.I think there are other things our PTA should be making a much more visible stand on ( like adaquate funding for schools and a decent education for all kids, not just advanced placement)</p>
<p>Ok, Bob Herbert gives us a look at the way recruitment is happening in high schools: <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/16/opinion/16herbert.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/16/opinion/16herbert.html</a></p>
<p>From the army’s “School Recruiting Program Handbook:”</p>
<p>Recruiters trying to sign up high school students are urged to schmooze, schmooze, schmooze.</p>
<p>“The football team usually starts practicing in August,” the handbook says. “Contact the coach and volunteer to assist in leading calisthenics or calling cadence during team runs.”</p>
<p>“Homecoming normally happens in October,” the handbook says. “Coordinate with the homecoming committee to get involved with the parade.”</p>
<p>Recruiters are urged to deliver doughnuts and coffee to the faculty once a month, and to eat lunch in the school cafeteria several times a month. And the book recommends that they assiduously cultivate the students that other students admire: “Some influential students such as the student president or the captain of the football team may not enlist; however, they can and will provide you with referrals who will enlist.”</p>
<p>I have been protesting for years how unfair it is to boys that they have to register, by law, for the selective service system yet women do not. Someday women should be forced to do so or they should eliminate the policy. Straight out it is an infringement on the rights of males that they must provide personal information to the government yet women do not have to. When I wrote the ACLU to suggest they spend their time fighting for AMERICAN rights under the selective service system they never replied, yet they deem it worthy to fight for the rights of detainees and prisoners. Funny I thought the ACLU stood for “American Civil liberties union” Not much protection of actual Americans going on with the ACLU these days.</p>
<p>I have not heard of military recruiters requiring compliance with providing information to the selective service system or the military. I do believe that it is wrong especially of high school kids unless they are 18 years of age. And I believe women should comply with the law also. How can we ever ask a young male to be sensitive,inlcusionary,open minded ,etc regarding women’s rights when they must comply with a law that women are exempt from?</p>
<p>I agree that all students should be forced to comply to register.
I also think that all high school graduates should be required to fulfill some sort of service after high school.
I find it disturbing that the US has blocked motions for an international agreement to ban child soldiers. Of course this would do away with the current military practice of signing up minors for duty.
<a href=“http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/crp/promises/soldiers.html[/url]”>http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/crp/promises/soldiers.html</a></p>
<p>If you want women subject to registering for service, then open up all assignments to women. The number of MOS open to women has increased greatly over the past decade but, as witnessed by the recent attempt to restrict women from certain MOS, there are plenty of folks who would just as well see women restricted to clerks, drivers, and eye-candy at the O-Club. Though Iraq is certainly making the notion of “front lines” quaint.</p>
<p>Might not be a bad idea to have women in all combat arms. There are lots of machismo-laden people who are perfectly willing to throw their sons into combat who might think twice if their daughters were at stake.</p>
<p>This is possibly the stupidest thread I’ve ever seen here. I swear to god if you don’t want to join the military all you have to do is “say no”!</p>
<p>By the time they reach fighting age all boys have to be registered anyway - THEY KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE ALREADY - Ohh my god, ohh my god, ohh my god!!!</p>
<p>…meanwhile, back in reality: This kind of thing has been happening with armed forces since the beginning of, well, ever. It’s not like its a draft; you’re free to turn them down. Are you really that scared of a recruiter talking to your son? Are you really that scared your kid can’t answer no if he doesn’t want to join?</p>
<p>If so, maybe you should have “the talk” with your children right now!</p>
<p>Now Johnny, what do you do if you’re approached by a man in formal military attire?</p>
<p>A) Drop and roll
B) scream “I need an adult” or “rape” and use the pepper spray
C) tell your friends that you “don’t use that stuff”
D) tell him you would, but you don’t want to get pregnant</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>At the risk of sounding quasi-Summers’ish, I think there <em>might</em> be a <em>tiny</em> difference between the physical size, strength, and endurance between men and women. Of course this theory is highly speculative and needs additional study, but I don’t see how putting our women out there to die (and provide more risk to our real combat solider) so their parents would “see the light” is a good idea.</p>
<p>have you ever heard of confessing to a crime that you haven’t committed?
It isn’t uncommon and the fact that enlistment is down about half has driven some recruiters to taking very hardline tactics that may drive some teens to enlist that are not suited for the military, particulary if they see no other future.</p>
<p>way beyong the call of duty
<a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/paynter/227497_paynter08.html[/url]”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/paynter/227497_paynter08.html</a></p>
<p>*Axel’s father, a Marine Corps vet who served in Vietnam, died when Axel was 4.</p>
<p>Clearly the recruiters knew all that and more.</p>
<p>“You don’t want to be a burden to your mom,” they told him. “Be a man.” “Make your father proud.” Never mind that, because of his own experience in the service, Marcia says enlistment for his son is the last thing Axel’s dad would have wanted.</p>
<p>The next weekend, when Marcia went to Seattle for the Folklife Festival and Axel was home alone, two recruiters showed up at the door.</p>
<p>Axel repeated the family mantra, but he was feeling frazzled and worn down by then. The sergeant was friendly but, at the same time, aggressively insistent. This time, when Axel said, “Not interested,” the sarge turned surly, snapping, “You’re making a big (bleeping) mistake!”</p>
<p>Next thing Axel knew, the same sergeant and another recruiter showed up at the LaConner Brewing Co., the restaurant where Axel works. And before Axel, an older cousin and other co-workers knew or understood what was happening, Axel was whisked away in a car.</p>
<p>“They said we were going somewhere but I didn’t know we were going all the way to Seattle,” Axel said.</p>
<p>Just a few tests. And so many free opportunities, the recruiters told him.</p>
<p>He could pursue his love of chemistry. He could serve anywhere he chose and leave any time he wanted on an “apathy discharge” if he didn’t like it. And he wouldn’t have to go to Iraq if he didn’t want to.</p>
<p>At about 3:30 in the morning, Alex was awakened in the motel and fed a little something. Twelve hours later, without further sleep or food, he had taken a battery of tests and signed a lot of papers he hadn’t gotten a chance to read. “Just formalities,” he was told. “Sign here. And here. Nothing to worry about.”…*</p>
<p>Maize&Blue, I gotta say that I was generally sympathetic to your comments, but if only half of what’s in the Seattle Pilot story is true, then to tell you the truth I AM “really that scared of a recruiter talking to your son?”, and I AM “really that scared your kid can’t answer no if he doesn’t want to join?”</p>
<p>I fully support the military being allowed to recruit HS kids on the same terms that all other colleges and potential employers are allowed to. Let them schedule a visit. Have the visit announced. Allow kids with interest to attend. Have a Guidance office well-stocked with information on the military as a career choice. But don’t allow this type of serious abuse.</p>
<p>Another side to the SeattlePI story, better researched, and perhaps more objective. You decide.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/spruiell200506141217.asp[/url]”>http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/spruiell200506141217.asp</a></p>
<p>I agree that there always more than one side to a story and I expect the people who were directly involved have their own bias.
One thing that does concern me about their miltary recruitment is that
they target students that they perceive as having limited resources after high school. I have spoken with several parents that I know personally who have said the the military does not leave them alone, these are families that are perhaps lower middle income , but on the flip side, families that are higher income attending suburban or private schools aren’t contacted at all.
I also have personal experience with a former recruiter who volunteered to go to Iraq because he prefered that, to convincing kids that they should join the miltary.
He was injured and is now an amputee, but the military will not discharge him until he fullfills his term of service.
Why won’t they allow him to get on with his life?</p>
<p>
The students are targeted in different ways. My obviously college-bound daughter wasn’t contacted by recruiters, but received all sorts of Officer Candidate School offers from all branches of the military. She also had some kind of offer/solicitation from the CIA.</p>
<p>my daughter did not recieve a single piece of information from the military but we were practically harrased by some colleges that she had never contacted quite annoying.
She currently has been taking a year off from her school, and I don’t know how they found out, but about 20 colleges have contacted her including by snail mail regarding transfers to their schools.
( I may be underestimating- it is slowing down)</p>
<p>EK, what you’re describing (annoying as it may be) is modern targeted marketing. My D gets solicitations from the CIA because she’s a math genius (my guess), and solicitations to sell kitchen knives door-to-door for Cutco because she’s a college student. If the US military were using 18th-century style impressment gangs to fill their ranks, I’d be very upset, but I can’t blame them for using modern technology to recruit people, just like colleges and businesses. It just makes sense.</p>
<p>I should add, there is a shortage of volunteer firefighters in my area, and they’re recruiting young people very aggressively, including current high school students. It’s dangerous work, but a good number of them have stepped forward and are doing it.</p>
<p>I haven’t read this thread in a long time, but saw it again and thought an 18 year old’s opinion might be worth something, because it’s people my age who they’re recruiting.</p>
<p>It’s an all VOLUNTEER military. Nobody is forced to join the military, despite what some journalist in Washington may write.The truth is probably somewhere in between the two stories, somewhat closer to what the recruiters said.</p>
<p>Nobody’s forced to be a Marine or Army paratrooper. All branches, Navy and Air Force especially, have jobs where you will be nowhere near a battlefield (not to diminish those jobs, they’re all important). Just because you’re in the military doesn’t mean you’re going to die.</p>
<p>Let your kids grow up. If they don’t want to be in the military, all they have to say is no.</p>