<p>Or this, which is being distributed by students at my D’s former high school, among others.</p>
<p>
</a></p>
<p>Young African American man walking down the sidewalk. A car comes screeching to a halt, double parks, and a man in a marine uniform comes running up to him. The marine proceeds to almost corner the young man, who is trying to get away from the recruiter, who asked how old, if the man lived nearby, if he was interested in serving his country and protecting the USA, and questions it would be very hard to say, ummm gee NO, to with other people standing around and listening, because the coversation was not a hushed on. I left before I could see how it ended.</p>
<p>I have seen young black men approached in parking lots, out side of movies, with their families. </p>
<p>It flashed me back to when certain religious groups would almost accust one on the street, asking all kinds of questions, right out there for anyone to hear.</p>
<p>Very weird</p>
<p>So depressing to see how some on this board think. Would you lift a finger to help anyone?</p>
<p>I help lots of people, lots of times. I think the US government has an obligation to help people, both here at home and abroad. </p>
<p>The war in Iraq is not such a case. It was sold to the American people on the basis of cynically manipulated data, was poorly planned (“We didn’t anticipate an insurgency.” Duh.), neither the costs nor the benefits are what the administration would want you to believe, our military is being degraded by a horrible operations tempo and is overstretched so that God help us if we have another crisis anywhere else. Other than that it’s hunky-dory.</p>
<p>Afghanistan was necessary and I would morn the death of any American there as a necessity, though even that job was inadequately conceived and executed…the Brits may have to pull 5500 troops from southern Iraq and shift them to Afghanistan in efforts to maintain stability. It’s as if those who conceived the plan for Afghanistan were moving cardboard chits around a mapboard, looking at narrow military requirements while ignoring the ethnic, religious, economic, and cultural parameters. And then you have horrible mis-steps like the Army’s own reports of criminal mistreatment of prisoners at Bagram and the Army cover-up of Pat Tilllman’s death being due to friendly fire and cynically used to spur recruiting.</p>
<p>All the inadequacies of Afghanistan shrink to insignificance when compared to Iraq, which had similar errors in premise and planning and even more errors in execution. Every American deaths in Iraq is not a sad necessity but a needless tragedy borne of hubris.</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom, did you see that in San Francisco? The recruiters out here must be getting really desparate.</p>
<p>there is a recruitment center right across the street from the cc I go to. When I walked in there today to interview a vet for my college english class all of the people in the office suddenly perked up and cornered me. So…are you interested in helping your country, do you want to travel the world and be a patriot?</p>
<p>I politely said NO and proceeded to interview my vet</p>
<p>Biggreen- I spend at least 500 hours a year doing service work…I help the disabled, the poor, kids, elderly.</p>
<p>I am Redcross certified in first aid, emergency preparedness, and CPR. Next week I am training in neighborhood emergency preparedness-something important in my city- so we can help our neighbors</p>
<p>both my Ds.volunteer at least 150 hours a year.</p>
<p>So yes, I would help someone…do it all the time</p>
<p>Daly City and San Francisco</p>
<p>Citymomsgirl, you don’t have to justify yourself to BigGreen - he is using exactly the same tactic that the recruiters use – “do you want to serve your country?” “are you patriotic?” … and, “would you lift a finger to help?” </p>
<p>So don’t fall into the trap.</p>
<p>I know, but I couldn’t help myself…</p>
<p>And those recruiters gave me the creeps. Running after people.</p>
<p>I’m not using any tactics. I’m just sad that we - as human beings - seem so little concerned with our fellow human beings. I think of my great-grandmother in Hungary who was hauled off out of her small village to be thrown into a gas chamber. Charles Lindbergh and the other America Firsters felt that it was a European War - we should stay out of it. We sat on our hands until we were attacked. Pol Pot slaughtered 4-million Cambodians - not 4 thousand, not 400,000, but 4-million and we did nothing. Rwanda - we did nothing. Darfur - we are doing nothing. I realize that we can’t solve all the world’s problems but there is current in American liberal thinking that we should stay out of everything - that America is evil and that our motives - and the motives of our leaders - is/are evil. Much of the sentiment against Iraq, unfortunately, is just hate for Bush.</p>
<p>As for TheDad - please name me a perfectly executed war. War is ugly and sloppy.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, we are all Americans - Blue State or Red State. I just hope some leaders emerge from somewhere that can help bind us together instead of pulling us apart. Right now Dems and Republicans are just jockeying for advantage. Let’s focus on our common values.</p>
<p>do not compare WWII and Dubya’s distraction. They are incomparable</p>
<p>BigGreen, the problem is that a lot of us do care about our fellow human beings, and we care tremendously. We took to the streets before Bush invaded Iraq. We didn’t want to see thousands of Iraqi children blown to bits, we didn’t want to see Iraqi homes demolished and Iraqi lives destroyed. We knew what this war would do to the people who lived there - we predicted the unrest that would follow, we predicted the destruction of the nation’s infrastructure. It wasn’t hard to predict – all it took was rudimentary knowledge of the history and culture of the area, coupled with contemporary understanding of the issues that fuel violence in the middle east.</p>
<p>So you have your point of view, which is different - and you are entitled to it – but your argument falls on deaf ears to those of us who feel that the war is criminal and remember the lessons of Nuremburg. The question isn’t whether we want to “help” - if we do, then the way to do so would be through humanitarian organizations and efforts, directed at helping Iraqi people, not through the military.</p>
<p>I copied your list of questions and comments, TheDad, and it is a keeper. I will give it out when I hear that the military is recruiting in the schools. Because of the way the law currently is, I cannot advocate keeping the military recruiters out of the schools, nor would I change my mind even if such a law does not exist. They have a right to give their spiel to the highschoolers and military service is an honorable option for many kids. It is, in fact, a privilige for many kids. In the school where I have done some work, most of the kids would not even qualify for the military, and for those who do, it is certainly their best option. Their life expectancy in their usual venues after highschool is much shorter in their neighborhoods than even going to IRraq. And the option should be available to all young adults, regardless of socio-economic situation. Just as the colleges call, send mail and recruit, so should the military have their turn.</p>
<p>However, given the current climate in recruiting with heavy pressure on the recruiters, the fact that there are unscrupulous recruiters and the military situation at hand, the schools should give all kids an information session covering the topics that TheDad has so well put together. And the schools should be cooperative with the military recruiters and have a well designed presentation with school official giving information and questions, parents invited and perhaps this info sheet given out as well. Most schools give out many, many college app handouts and info sessions. So it should be for service for our country. Parents also should be advised exactly what the “backout” period and terms are should their kid get blindsided and sign up thoughtlessly. This is a really relevant piece of life, and whether you agree with the situation in Iraq, the military, the government, there is that side that should be presented as well. We are so fortunate that it is a choice to join the military these days. In my opinion, many of the kids are not going to pass the physicals anyways, or the background checks without considerable waivers. Too many recreational drugs in the system, too many criminal complaints on record, and too many prescription drugs for ADD and other conditions these days for a lot of kids to even be accepted in today’s military.</p>
<p>BigGreen, my paternal ancestors escaped from Revolutionary Russia, emigrating to the US in the 1920’s after making their way across Europe, so don’t try pulling any of that “I understand evil and totalitarianism, you just don’t appreciate history” crap on me. </p>
<p>Nimble change of focus, but a war’s perfect execution is not the issue: “No plan survives contact with reality.” --Von Schlieffen</p>
<p>The issue is the fraudulent premises for invading Iraq, the obfuscation of the costs, the Potemkin village goals, the degradation of the military, the wasting of moral political capital that was acquired over six decades with an arrogant doctrine of preemptive action, and abysmally ignorant and shallow basis upon which the intervention was based…there is a difference between incorrect assessments (cf., Dieppe) and blatant willful pigheadedness.</p>
<p>Jamimom, thanks, but the list is not of my own devising, simply one that I have passed on. It is a good list, I agree, and I appreciate whoever compiled it.</p>
<p>I want to add that I do not agree with the invasion of Iraq, and that none of my kids are in the military, nor do they have any desire to join. Quite the contrary. I doubt most of my boys would even qualify for a variety of reasons. The older ones did not even give ROTC or any such options a heartbeat of consideration. If anything, they would be out their protesting; in fact some of them have. However, just because there is disagreement about this option, and, yes, some bad eggs out there that need to be reported by families, students, schools and communities to get them out of their jobs that they are inproperly doing, does not mean that those military recruiters who are doing their jobs should be harassed in this duty. It is awfully presumptuous to decide that NOONE should go into the military from highschool.</p>
<p>Harrasment and protesting are two different things…protesting is good…if army recruiters are protested for the job they are doing, not for who they are, then, gee that is the right they want to recruit people to protect. If you are in the army and can’t handle being called a few names, what does that say about the army? I think name calling or anything like that is not called for, but legitimate protest- absolutely necessary</p>
<p>What gets me is that these recruiters want people to fight for our freedoms, but that is really not what we are fighting for in Iraq. It is a false war, and people know it.</p>
<p>I do not think protesting about the recruiters is right. You have the right, yes. But I think the military has the right to present their case. Better you spend the energy working with the school and the kids with information and questions like the one TheDad has posted. THough it is your opinion that the military is not a good option for young people, there are others who have different opinions. I don’t think it is right to shut out that option. To present your viewpoint is one thing, to prevent the other side from making their presentation is a whole other story.</p>
<p>In today’s NY Times: “Growing Problem for Military Recruiters: Parents”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/nyregion/03recruit.html?[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/nyregion/03recruit.html?</a></p>