Please only respond if you have actual, current information about Kelley dropping finite math requirement. 3 days ago the Admissions dept confirmed this along w a director in charge of curriculum. However a lot of non accurate info is going around and id like to see this in writing.
If you are unaware of these changes please don’t chime in with outdated info or hypothesis.
Do you mean dropping it for standard admission to Kelley?
If so, they already did that. If you look here, for this year, Math 118 (finite math) can be taken as late as first semester of soph year, which is after applying for standard admission in second semester of first year. I expect some students still take it freshman year, but it’s not required for standard admission.
We attended the first Kelley DA day on 2/17 and in the 2:15pm parent break out section they told us they were creating a new finite class just for business & public policy. But it would not be ready this fall. As a result they would take EITHER finite or calc to satisfy the math requirement for S24s incoming class.
I have not seen in written down anywhere.
Did you talk to someone on the phone or in person? Where did you hear this info?
I-Core Prerequisites - Bulletin - Kelley School of Business says that students can take a linear algebra course (M-301, M-303, S-303) to substitute for finite math (M-118, or D-116 and D-117).
Anyone is free to respond. The onus is on you to separate the wheat from the chaff. Directing who can and cannot post isn’t allowed.
A director at a meet & greet in Massachusetts last week. Then a phone call into the admissions department to confirm it. So i am in agreement w/ what you’re saying but my daughter is still stressed because she was going to take finite over the summer but doesn’t want to if not needed.
I spoke with an accounting professor at IU direct admit day. She helped develop the new, more practical, business oriented math course. It will not include writing proofs nor be taught by mathematics graduate students- common complaints about the finite course. The new course will be piloted in the fall of ‘24 for current Kelley students only. In the meantime calculus can fill the math requirement without having to take the dreaded finite math course.
These are similar complaints I’ve heard at the Walton School of Business, University of Arkansas. Finite is used as a weed out class. My son received an “A” but worked for it, but he says it is absolutely not a problem if you go to class, work hard, and seek out supplemental instruction if you are having problems. I honestly don’t know why it causes such anxiety.
Why would a Marketing or Management major need to take a finite math course- with proofs? I don’t understand it. Instead, give students math that’s most relevant to their future career choice.
I don’t disagree necessarily, but traditional finite mathematics heavily promotes critical thinking skills, a core of classical and liberal learning.
Do you know if passing the Calculus AP test (or having taken Calculus BC in HS) means that the student doesn’t have to retake it at Kelley?
A 4 or 5 on the AB or BC would give you credit for Math 211 which satisfies the Calc ICore. There’s a number of people who take it again to try to get an A on their college record.
Probably the same reason that high school geometry includes proofs, which is to give practice with logical thinking that is useful generally across various subjects (even if not as obviously as in math, computer science, philosophy, and law).
Based on link above both Finite Math (or substitute) AND Calculus must be completed by end of 1st year.
Yes, and that has historically been true. That bulletin is not for the incoming class that graduates high school in 2024. That bulletin has not yet been published where the public can see it, as far as I know.
And to endorse UCB’s fine post- there are zero disciplines in business these days that do not require analysis or math. Marketing is no longer “should the package be blue or green”. If the package IS blue, it’s because both qualitative and quantitative research indicated that blue gets better shelf placement, OR better brand recognition, OR has fewer quality control issues during the printing process OR has a higher rate of recyclability across the country-- or all of the above. And companies want marketing employees who can analyze data, recognize trends, interpret information and numbers, etc.
Management is no longer “maybe we should downsize”. That too requires analysis of both micro and macro trends.
What’s important is not the specific content of the math curriculum- what’s important in maintaining the credibility of an allegedly rigorous business degree is that it is- in fact- rigorous. Students have pushed themselves quantitatively and analytically.
I work in corporate HR which used to be the last hiding place of the innumerate. That was the “before times”. Now every day brings questions like “Our health care costs increased 12% last year even though headcount is down 4% and we shifted to a lower cost plan which was supposed to save 5-8% per year over the next decade. Please explain”.
You don’t need math with proofs- or even calculus-- to solve this problem. But weaker math students are going to struggle even identifying a list of “We need to isolate the following factors” as possible drivers of cost increases.
About to retire from a 30+ year career in marketing with a BS in finance + MBA and I concur. For years, the only marketing roles which needed to apply any financial skills were brand/product managers and now, the only area of marketing that doesn’t apply real analysis is event planning, and to some degree public relations.
Switching gear from Finite Math to Calculus, if it’s okay with all… …
Why doesn’t anyone talk about taking Math 201 (Brief Calculus) from Ivy Tech (summer online course) instead of Math 211 (Calculus I)? Wouldn’t 201 be an easier course than 212 since it’s an introductory course? Please let me know your thoughts so we can make the correct decision. TIA.
As per IU Credit Transfer Services, both courses can be transferred over to satisfy IU’s I-Core pre-reqs.