<p>alwaysamom: Agreed. This is bread and circuses for the uninformed masses. </p>
<p>See: #20</p>
<p>He should have written children’s books after his convictions. Maybe something like “Ken Lay speaks out against Aspen property owners”. Then there would be ongoing candlelight vigils for him and Joan Baez would sing for us.</p>
<p>Guess some people think all corporations do no harm, that all follow the rules, and that we serfs should just be grateful</p>
<p>Hogwash</p>
<p>The guy was a jerk, he was surrounded by jerks, and so he was affable…big whoop</p>
<p>If he was a “good” man, then he would have turned in his employees, don’t you think…</p>
<p>Why cover up crimes? He could have said…I was guilty of poor judgmenet, and this is what these people did</p>
<p>But no, he takes in all the money, watches people lose everything, and says woe is me</p>
<p>He knew what was going on and these guys put up a wall of silence hoping no one will tell the truth…</p>
<p>They are horrid little men, and Ken Lay, well, he profited mightily from it</p>
<p>I do wish they are were punished, sure, but they cover for each other and no one tells</p>
<p>That is pathetic</p>
<p>In our system of justice, the jury decides what is truth. And the jury has spoken: guilty of six counts of fraud and conspiracy. Not his underlings alone. Him. The jury did not believe his tale that he did not know what was going on and it was the jury who sat through the evidence and is charged with making the decision. Let’s not rewrite history. </p>
<p>The sympathy for this greedy little rich man amazes me. He headed a corrupt company whose collapse bankrupted individuals,robbed people of their pensions, had political and corporate fallout across the country (particularly here in CA) and I’m expected to feel sorry for the guy??? Sorry. I save my sympathy for the good, hard-working, honest, decent people who have died.</p>
<p>Ken Lay padded a lot of pockets, hence the sacrificial lamb narrative.</p>
<p>Allmusic - you hit the nail on the head -post #20</p>
<p>At least now taxpayers won’t have to pay for his upkeep.</p>
<p>Trying to maximize profits is, by itself, no sin. It’s how you go about it. </p>
<p>Greed, for the lack of a better word, is good. How it gets channeled, well…</p>
<p>jazzymom, in our system of justice, the jury reaches a verdict as to whether or not the prosecution has proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt. This is sometimes indicative of a part of the truth , it’s sometimes indicative of none of the truth , but it’s rarely indicative of the entire truth. There’s no rewriting history here. Many attorneys (and I’m not talking about Lay’s attorneys) and others who are directly involved with this case, with the concurrent cases, and with the civil cases have no doubt as to where the real blame lies. There are many guilty parties here, some convicted, some not. Ken Lay was not without culpability to a degree, but he was neither the mastermind, the driving force, nor the active participant that several others were. I don’t have sympathy for him but I am saddened at any death, and I feel for his family. </p>
<p>There have been hundreds of books written about the Enron fiasco. I would recommend that if people truly want to inform themselves, and not just listen to the soundbites on the news, two of the best are Conspiracy of Fools by Kurt Eichenwald and The Smartest Guys in the Room by Peter Elkind and Bethany McLean. Both will supply an informative, fascinating read.</p>
<p>
Garbage!
I find it interesting that those writing in this thread who complain about what the Enron employees lost (supposedly) because of Ken Lay fail to acknowledge his accomplishments. He started out as a man of modest means and advanced in business based on his intellect and hard work. He was a founder of Enron. If it wasn’t for Ken Lay, the Enron employees would never have had anything to lose because Enron would not have existed. 95 percent of Ken Lay’s life represented the American dream that anyone can succeed in America. What American needs is more people like Ken Lay. He was convicted based on the testimony of a State turned lier. Sometimes juries get it right, and some times they don’t. I don’t know if Ken Lay actually committed the crimes for which he was convicted, but I do know that no one posting on this thread knows either.</p>
<p>It may be true that Ken Lay wasn’t the center of evil in the Enron debacle, but let’s not forget that he took no responsibility for his role. None. It’s like I tell my kids: There’s nothing I can’t forgive as long as you step up and accept responsibility for your actions (or inactions).</p>
<p>I’ve no particular sympathy for Ken. I met him once, some time ago. No impression one way or the other [sometimes you have a clear one]. I need to do some research to be able to assign blame. I suspect there is plenty to go in Ken Lay’s direction, as well as Jeff Skilling’s. Fastow certainly fits the “bad guy” description. </p>
<p>One can learn a lot on these boards. I think I am learning that one need not speak out loud to qualify as a loudmouth. I think that is the term I have been trying to put my finger on.</p>
<p>When someone posts about the life or death of person, presumably they are seeking comment, opinion. Is responding to the post with one’s real opinion being a loudmouth? Are the opinions only supposed to agree with the OP? How dull would that be? Ken Lay and his band of thieves did deep damage to the state of California and its residents. Their deception and greed took money out of everyone’s pocket in my state and I’m supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about him because he died? Offer polite nods of agreement while I consider him a scumbag, and have a jury verdict to back me up? Sorry. I could put my finger on a few choice terms but I’ll refrain.</p>
<p>Garbage, Razorsharp? There are may many good businesses in America. Businesses which turn a decent profit, and don’t cut corners to make it look even better. Businesses which don’t make up mysterious sounding reasons for how they magically can ignore the laws of economics, which don’t have to express contempt for those who question the underpinnings of their success.</p>
<p>Businesses which don’t exhibit the arrogance and amorality of Enron at its peak.</p>
<p>It’s not a coincidence that Enron was in the forefront of abusing the opportunity presented by deregulation of the electric market in California to job the system to create profit for itself without adding value to anyone else. It’s not a coincidence that the Enron employees (who could and would have worked and earned and saved for retirement elsewhere if Enron never existed) ended up with their savings gutted. Ken Lay may represent the American dream to some - but that’s no dream - it’s a nightmare. You don’t get a colossal mess like Enron with an honest man at the helm. Lives were ruined – lives were lost – because of Ken Lay. The great triumph of corporatism is the ability to walk away from the consequences of your actions, to take no personal responsibility, to lay it all off on “the market” or “the system” or “it’s not a crime.” If any person in America is a criminal, Ken Lay was that man. He got to skim the cream off the profits of Enron’s wrongdoing when the going was good, but when it came time to pay the piper he ran and hid, and pointed fingers at everyone else. No going down with the ship for America’s modern captains of industry! I guess paying the price is only for the little people. My only regret is that Ken Lay never got to sleep in a prison cell.</p>
<p>Though vigilante justice is considered bad form these days–properly so–it seems clear that many still pine away around the hillock and bonfire (read: computer screen) for the good old days of the torch, pitchfork and gallows–as evinced in posts #4, 9, 14, 26 & 33. Its a common impulse, to be sure I feel ya.</p>
<p>But the real dreamers, the true sentimentalists who find their sincerest expression in the good old days, have really hit their stride in posts # 12, 15, 20, 23, 24. Here you will find traces of the slogans, but, sadly, not the ancient chants of the rampaging hordes themselves.</p>
<p>As I understand the legalities in the trial of the mortified Mr. Lay, the fustian corporate exec was sentenced to prison, not deathbut then, wheres the revenge in that? Thats not how the fairytale is supposed to end. </p>
<p>Perhaps its just the medias salacious portrayal, but I thought Fastow was more suited to the role of the witch that gets tossed in the oven as the naifs cheer. I guess a body is a body and Lays may well do for the time being. Stay tuned…</p>
<p>Shades of the “good 'ole days:”</p>
<p>“Wanted in fourteen states, the condemned is found guilty of the crimes of murder, armed robbery of citizens, state banks and post offices, the theft of sacred objects, arson in a state prison, perjury, bigamy, deserting his wife and children, inciting prostitution, kidnapping, extortion, receiving stolen goods, selling stolen goods, passing counterfeit money, and contrary to the laws of this state, the condemned is found guilty of using marked cards in poker. Therefore, according to the powers vested in me, we sentence the accused here before us, Ken Lay, (known as ‘the rat’), or any other aliases he might go by to hang by the neck until dead. May god have mercy on his soul. Proceed!”</p>
<p>Name that Movie!</p>
<p>Dadguy says:</p>
<p>“Greed, for the lack of a better word, is good.”</p>
<p>Hmm… what is wrong with that statement? Isn’t greed one of the seven deadly SINS?! Now we are calling it “good”!!! Excuse me, but when did we evolve into THAT revelation?</p>
<p>kluge – Well said!</p>
<p>FountainSiren:</p>
<p>The Good, the Bad, and the UgLay.</p>
<p>Death Penalty? Gosh, I never said he should die…prison would have been much better</p>
<p>But guess many don’t care about the hundreds of thousands affected by his actions, and those of his cronies, we will never know who died becuase of what they did to California, to their investors, their employees</p>
<p>“Stress”- he had medical care, he had a nice home, he had security for his family, the people damaged by his greed, well, if you want to talk about harm?</p>
<p>I don’t feel sorry he his dead, i don’t feel happy, but sorrow, pity, naw</p>
<p>Are some of you saying that we people far away somehow have magic powers and sent mindwaves to Mr. Lay’s heart. If only we could.</p>
<p>People act like just because this man did not hit some old lady over the noggin with a bat does not make him any less a thief or mugger</p>
<p>Did I want him dead, eh, didn’t give THAT any thought, do I want more people punished for raping and pillaging, yeah, I do.</p>
<p>
Really?
Emerson once advised the thinking American, who in her intellectual conceit is so often possessed of a multitude of opinion, that
…*a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.*</p>
<p>CGM, you need worry not at all that you are possessed of an over abundance of consistency, foolish or otherwise, and you may, I believe, ignore Emersons dictum in its entirety. :)</p>
<p>Damnit Venado you beat me to saying it :P. I won’t comment on this thread seeing how its reaching new lows after every new post by CGM. Oh ya, Lay was a bit of a jerk.</p>