Kid doesn’t want a low paying major…

Anyone else noticing that almost every kid you talk to now wants to go into finance? We have three kids, two currently in college. One about to apply. Oldest is health sciences, middle is communications, youngest is leaning toward elementary education. She is freaking out about not being able to make a living as a teacher.
We are currently coaching oldest into healthcare business roles which is her natural inclination, middle will likely end up in sales because that’s what he knows and what his personality is built for (both parents in sales) and our youngest feels like she will be a disappointment if she goes into education.

How have we fallen so far as a society that she feels like she will be seen as a failure if she goes into teaching? We feel lucky to be able to support her in this endeavor, but I am struggling to help her get out of her own head. Not everyone can be a finance major! How can we get kids to open their minds to service careers?

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Are her spending habits frugal or spendy?

Not frugal, but definitely not the spendiest kid in our family. She feels a deep sense of responsibility for taking care of other people, particularly children. And she feels like this could really be her calling. But also feels tremendous pressure to be be a high financial achiever to keep the “family pattern” going.

Teaching is wonderful and some districts pay more than others. Mine started out at a reputable college grad salary (high need district) - but it’s a brutal job, sometimes without a lot of support and the government is working against you. That’d be more concerning to me than $$. At the same time, I know my well to do district starts $18 or $20K below what my daughter gets.

No one knows what their salary will be- your middle will go into sales but comm majors often struggle and have no where to go - i ended in sales.

Even the best laid plans - kids can struggle and others can major in humanities and end up in six figure jobs.

The most important thing - careers are long - you want to pursue the dream…your dream, not the rest of society. Yes, there may be trade offs financially but it sounds like you’ll help support that.

It sucks but she is enabling the future toward success. I personally applaud her.

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I spent my entire career working as a speech language pathologist in the public schools. I was part of the teachers group there. I was never disappointed in myself, or any of my colleagues.

If your daughter wants to be a teacher, I say…go for it. Where I live, it’s a well respected profession that sadly fewer and fewer folks are entering. Tell her to look for local scholarships. Where I am, scholarships for those pursing degrees in education are often going unrewarded due to lack of applicants.

we need dedicated teachers who are about the future of our students.

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Teaching is brutal, but I will not get into the long list of reasons why that is. I also think that for somebody who really wants to teach, they often rise to the challenge.

There are ways to increase your salary or earn extra money (districts/states will have their own policies): continuing your education, taking credits beyond your degree ie MA + 15, tutoring, school stipends, etc.

I work in a school (not a classroom teacher) and usually work in my districts summer program (2-3 weeks in July). Over the years I worked in other summer programs.

One of my kids spent 2+ years with Teach for America (high needs school) and she earned an extra $14,000 a year by giving up her prep to teach. She was 22 (no longer teaches) and I thought her salary was pretty good.

My other kid is a teacher (3 different certs) and her job requires her to travel to several schools. She does not have a classroom. It’s a large, urban district and the salaries are pretty decent, imo.

One thing to consider is health insurance. Once these kids hit 26 they are knocked off of their parents insurance. Teaching comes with insurance (my D who teaches pays 0, I pay but not a lot compared to other people). Some jobs today either do not want to offer insurance, hire you as a contractor without benefits, or charge a lot of money to get it. She also has an excellent pension and works in a state that allows for both a pension and social security (I recently learned that a few states do not allow teachers with a pension to collect SS).

My daughter’s district also reimburses teachers for the cost of commuting.

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This is a good question. I know teachers who have ultimately done reasonably well financially, not because they ever had really high salaries, but because they had good savings habits and were at least steadily employed. I believe some (mainly the ones with long careers) also ended up with significant pensions, which may seem pretty boring but are actually worth more than some seem to realize.

Of course you still have to find it rewarding for other reasons for it really to make sense.

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Most of my dad’s family were teachers. He taught in the same k-12 school for 42 years. This was in NY though and NY teachers have a pretty good union. His retirement benefits were enviable. This isn’t true for all states. Even though NY teacher pay/benefits are on the higher end of the scale, most of my aunts and uncles as well as my dad, worked summer gigs for extra income.

I think it’s a good thing for kids to think about projected earnings from their desired career choice before they take the plunge. Teaching is admirable for sure, but the pay is typically not on the high side and that’s something that should be discussed. I’d rather them consider it on the front end than be several years into the career and have regrets because of the pay.

Another thing to consider with teaching is that there are quite a few other careers that can stem from that degree. I went to college in NY (to one of the top “teacher” colleges) and many of my friends graduated with teaching degrees. Some taught in the classroom, but others have worked in educational software sales, curriculum development, literacy and several went on to become school administrators and superintendents.

I also don’t think it’s necessarily a negative to have a kid with the ambition to aim for a big salary. Most of us realize that there will likely be a series of events along the way that will cause a reckoning or a humbling, resulting in the realization of the reality of what it takes to make that high salary - that most don’t just graduate and magically become a top finance “bro” (and if they do - oh yeah, welcome to your 60+ hour work week).

OP - your daughter should absolutely not feel like a failure if she wants to become a teacher! If she has a heart for service, we need her. I wish the salaries matched the hard work that goes into careers like teaching, first responders and law enforcement. You’re right, not everyone can go into finance (and that career path has started to become over-saturated). She is lucky to have you to support her!

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Job satisfaction is extremely important.
Some schools may pay for graduate coursework/programs and-or travel overseas in the summer and/or sabbatical travel. So there can be lots of side benefits. Plus time off in the summer. And perhaps she will ultimately end up with a degree down the road in education administration, where salaries can be higher. There are plenty of people who go after high paying jobs (eg law) and burn out. Let her do what she feels is her calling.

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This all day long! If you have a job that you love and that is meaningful, you won’t miss the stupid money. I tell every kid I know to forget about the money and to not be chained to a desk. There’s more to life.

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The more you have, the more you need. Even billionaires seem to “need” more.

If you enjoy your work, you’ll figure out how to be happy with what you have.

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I come from a family with a lot of teachers and it can be a solid career depending on where you live. Some places pay pretty well (in my town in MA the average teacher salary is in the mid 90s) and benefits can be excellent (my late parents lived almost entirely on my dad’s teacher pension in retirement with dips into their 401ks for travel etc and enjoyed a very nice quality of life). Also, if you are looking for extra income, some teachers work for part or all of the summer break (which still leaves quite a bit of vacation time over the course of the school year - usually 3-4 weeks all in). If it is something that interests your daughter she should pursue it.

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This conversation makes me sad in so many ways. There is so much evidence about the importance of early childhood education and I don’t understand why society doesn’t reward teachers more. I hope she can see her way to doing this, as it sounds like it will be truly meaningful to her. Some good suggestions above. Nothing wrong with following your heart.

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This is definitely an epidemic. Our kid is a freshman who was mostly undecided with interest in government. Now, he is suddenly all about econ. and talking about finance internships, etc. (neither parent is in that industry) I don’t know how much of it is peer pressure/talk vs. other factors. I also know of many other kids who went in with unrelated interests/majors (env. science, etc.) and somehow morphed into finance/investment recruits.

Unfortunately due to finances and loans, our kids needed majors with higher paying outcomes. Fortunately they all like their careers. One has a passion for music, and got her billable hours down to 40 so she can spend more time performing (and gets paid for that as well). Another just moved in with his girlfriend of 5 years, she’s a teacher. I am friends with several teachers who were married and had children, it was a pretty nice schedule with summers off. The male teachers we know (and have known for decades), do pretty well, one is the HS principal, another is the middle school principal, and one also coaches the crew team. Now that we are all pushing 60, we envy their benefits, especially healthcare!

Any reason why she has to pick now? Why not major in History or French or whatever she’s interested in…. and pick up teaching certification or a Master’s afterwards (which is the normal pattern in my state)?

Why does a 17 year old have to decide on a forever career without even knowing what’s out there?

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There certainly won’t be jobs in finance for all the kids who want jobs in finance. Will being a mortgage broker, loan manager at the local bank satisfy them? Maybe.

I love that you asked about this topic, and have a lot of thoughts on it that I’ll share here.

In my opinion as a long time federal civil servant who has been pushed out and back into the private sector within the last year, we’ve fallen so far because there has been a sustained societal attack against and devaluing of service to others. The ethos around what is “respected”’has shifted heavily toward making as much money as possible and having lavish lifestyle and expensive things and experiences. Up to a generation ago, teachers were respected far more. Now, they are attacked as self-serving and part of the problem (the attacks on teachers unions are frequently veiled attacks on teachers themselves) despite the low pay and the reasons almost all go into it. And the problem is not unique to teachers. Doctors used to be more respected and now are more frequently under attack as self-serving, uncaring, and dishonest. Civil servants of almost all stripes are viewed as corrupt or wasteful parasites upon the American taxpayer despite the fact that many could make way more money in the private sector. Even police and members of the military are far less respected than they used to be. Meanwhile finance and tech bros esteem has skyrocketed. When I was in school a generation ago, premed was far more admired than a desire and ability to go into finance or consulting. Community leaders, including religious ones, were valued. But, we have sunk to a place where the assumption is that everybody is just out for themself and to chase as many dollars as possible, as opposed to wanting greater value and meaning for their fellow humans and community through their work. So, those who go into professions for less pay are societally assumed to be either less competent, lazy, foolish, or corrupt. That is how we got here, a culture obsessed with money and self-interest to the exclusion of all else. It took decades to get here, but that is where we are.

Having said all of that, there are likely two big picture things that make your daughter feel like she’d be a failure by going into teaching. The first are the big picture forces I mentioned above. Those are real, and she feels them just like many who now aspire to be finance bros (for the record, I have no issue with people going into finance. I do have an issue with how much our best and brightest overvalue that path compared to all the others we as a society need. And while it is true that some are going into finance due to heavy loans and family need, that is not why that profession has skyrocketed amongst well off Ivy League+ grads who come from families with money that could afford to do other things). One of the best counterbalances she can have to that is you, her family who are in sales and other more lucrative professions, telling and showing her how much you support, respect, and value her choice to go into teaching. She needs to feel it to believe it. Family respect often means a lot in a world that is giving a different message.

Second, your daughter is feeling the pressure of the folks around her who don’t value those things. That is where young people are at now with everyone aspiring to engineering or business and the humanities are for suckers ethos. However, if she can cut through the noise, she will find a community of like minded people in education majors who are passionate about that mission. They, like her, will value other things than money. They, will respect things on a totally different scale that is not weighed by how much money you make, what car you drive, or fancy vacations. And, in being surrounded by such peers, she will start to feel respected by the people who matter to her on measures that she actually thinks in her soul are important - what she’s doing for kids, innovative ideas in the classroom or elsewhere, success of students, etc. The hard part is getting from where she is, to a community of peers who values the same thing she does. But once she does, she may stop caring so much what those outside that group think about her choices and career and start caring more about being respected by her peers.

That has been my experience, I have been a public service lawyer for a long time. That is always what I wanted to do. Early in my career I did the big law thing for a brief stint because I could and I was supposed to given my “talent” and credentials or whatever. That is what virtually all the people who had my resume from the schools I went to do. I hated it. I hated it every single day that I did it. It was bad for my mental health. It was bad for my happiness. It was bad for my sense of value I was contributing to the world. But I made a lot of money and people were impressed by it. At my core, I was not impressed. My life has been so much better since I moved to what I wanted to do all along. And, I still have never made as much money in any year as I made as a very junior person in private practice (not even inflation adjusted just raw dollars). That is despite being highly accomplished and managing teams and high profile and sensitive projects. And I would not change it for the world. I have classmates and friends who make 10 times what I made in a year in public service. But I made enough for my lifestyle, and I was happier and more satisfied with my life and career than most of them. The irony is that I’ve been forced back into private practice by the shifts in the federal government. I may make the most money I’ve made since I was a junior attorney soon, and if I could, I’d go back to the work I care about. The money can’t replace the values of the work I did to me.

I have lots of educators in my family, including siblings. They are no less (and sometimes more) happy then many I know who make gobs more money. You can make enough to have a great life as a teacher. But it involves a different value set than is de rigor in America today.

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Interestingly, last I knew there was much less of a pay gap between childhood teachers and other professionals with equivalent levels of higher education in some other countries. And in fact it can vary significantly within the US as well, although I am not sure even in the “good” states/districts it is quite like it is in the “good” countries (although that is in terms of relative pay–in terms of absolute pay, I think some US districts could be more than competitive).

There are lots of explanations offered for why the US, particularly in certain locales, is not keeping up in this sort of comparison, but the bottom line is anything like that is incredibly hard to fix with such a decentralized AND partially-privatized childhood education system. An overall system which, to be fair, a lot of people value for various other reasons.

I truly doubt it.