<p>What a shame about the male students at Syracuse. My niece is applying to the theater program there. I have a feeling the male students in that program are husband material-- but not for women ;)</p>
<p>D2 is also in theater, and I certainly get your drift. But didn’t you know, theater kids have no time to meet prospective mates, date and have relationships? </p>
<p>Again, this observation was D1’s take. And… she is very, very picky. Oh, she had a great time when she was there, and moved to Boston so she could be near her Syracuse friends; in fact, she went back last weekend for that awesome basketball game (OT). But no husband material. Go figure.</p>
<p>geeps–your suspicious and condescending attitude towards those who are sincerely trying to come up with helpful suggestions to your OP is disturbing. as your son completes high school and moves out into the broader world of college, i hope he develops a more positive approach towards communication than you have exhibited throughout this thread. he will need it.</p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>I think it makes sense to look for a middle-leaning college for him. Places like Oberlin would be a PIA for a conservative. A college student should not have to be defending his/her beliefs day after day. At some point they just want to fit in. Everyone likes to have conversations sometimes with people who agree with them. Not talking BYU or Bob Jones here…just someplace where the student would not be the token conservative. </p>
<p>There are LACs which are not extremely liberal. You just have to find them. </p>
<p>I don’t think this thread should have become a political show case. The OP doesn’t have to defend her question to anyone. Maybe it wasn’t worded in the most neutral way, and the question should have been more along the lines of: Suggestions of moderate/conservative LACs.</p>
<p>I think colleges should (and probably do) engage in affirmative action to ensure political diversity on campus. In other words, use affirmative action to give preferences to right-leaning students who may be ideologically opposed to affirmative action! Our Oberlin tour guide took pains to point out that they even have a “young Republican’s club” on campus.</p>
<p>“geeps–your suspicious and condescending attitude towards those who are sincerely trying to come up with helpful suggestions to your OP is disturbing.”</p>
<p>ARE you kidding me??? Sorry…I’ve been more than patient…but that is gone now…Some of you darn well knew what was asked, but tried to play games instead.</p>
<p>…This reminds me of "It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is. Is it a liberal flaw not being able to answer a question directly?</p>
<p>“The problem is that you are either intellectually lazy or intellectually dishonest or both”</p>
<p>…and you sir/mam, just don’t know how to comprehend the English language.</p>
<p>“pushing the liberal agenda”…what does that mean, can you explain that further…blah, blah…</p>
<p>Anyone out there besides the wolf pack that didn’t get what I was asking? Did my statements below need more clarification…or could any reasonable, rational person clearly understand what I was getting at?</p>
<p>“He doesn’t want teacher’s expressing their political beliefs in classes that don’t warrant a political viewpoint…is that asking too much?”</p>
<p>“This is basically my main concern…do professors at LACs in general want their viewpoint upheld and hold grudges against differing views?”</p>
<p>“That was never mentioned…just concerned in regards to schools where their professors push there views.”</p>
<p>“Again, I’m looking for schools were professors do not express their personal beliefs in classes were they are not needed…that’s all.”</p>
<p>“Slithey…I agree…that would be a great discussion for the classroom…if the teacher is preaching it as a fact though, and belittling any other views…then that would be wrong.”</p>
<p>.“I don’t know how to be any clearer…I don’t want anything discussed as fact, if it is not…that goes for religion, global warming, whatever. A good professor will create an atmosphere where all views can be heard… no one being scorned or ridiculed.”</p>
<p>“and again, not “occasional liberal view”…pushing, and or stating liberal opinion as fact”</p>
<p>“I don’t know how many ways I can say it…and to be honest, this is getting old. I think my point is and was clear…I don’t believe professors should be talking about controversial topics as if only one view should be the accepted view.”</p>
<p>my OP was not to find conservative colleges…I was asking if NE LAC have a tendency to express their liberal opinions in classes where that would not be appropriate or needed.</p>
<p>“It’s obvious that most colleges slant to the left, it is another question if their bias is carried over to the classroom”</p>
<p>“My post was simply to find out whether the NE LACs tended to show more bias than other colleges”</p>
<p>“I’m not looking for any specific type of college…AGAIN, I was inquiring if NE LACs were made up of predominantly biased prof who liked to push their views…that’s it…period…there is no hidden agenda.”</p>
<p>“the only thing I find relevant is what colleges have a reputation for pushing the liberal agenda…that’s all. Somehow this thread turned into liberals defending why this is OK…as everyone should hear all views. Hearing all views is fine, a professor pushing the liberal agenda on students is not. Big difference there.”</p>
<p>I think the problem is that “pushing the liberal agenda” did not come into play until much bandwith had been expended around the OP’s post #1 which indeed had much more neutral wording. Very few of us could figure out a marker that made sense for the improper expression of ALL opinions in the classroom. I think we were all in agreement that the further such remarks are removed from the subject matter of the class, the more suspicious they were.</p>
<p>But, somewhere around the 100s the OP modified his position to say that he wasn’t interested in the occasional slip-up in class, but rather, in professors “pushing” their opinions. Well, that’s a different story. What if the professor happens to be an expert on global warming? Why wouldn’t they be entitled to their own opinion? That was when the word “opinion” eventually gave way to the word, “agenda”, and that’s where the state of play has been ever since. </p>
<p>The OP doesn’t understand that once you start throwing around conspiracy theories lifted whole hog from Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh that it discredits the sincerity of his original query. I don’t care how widely held the trope, I see no reason to concede something exists (i.e., a conspiracy among liberal academics) just because it gets repeated over and over again on conservative talk radio.</p>
<p>Well JohnWesley…the following posts were #'s 24 and 35…well before the 100’s. Can you honestly say you didn’t understand the point of the thread at this time…honestly.</p>
<p>“He doesn’t want teacher’s expressing their political beliefs in classes that don’t warrant a political viewpoint…is that asking too much?”</p>
<p>“This is basically my main concern…do professors at LACs in general want their viewpoint upheld and hold grudges against differing views?”</p>
<p>Edit: and post #38 where the word “push” was first used…that’s page 3</p>
<p>“How would I know what professors do at LACs? I was hoping to hear that they just teach, not push views”</p>
<p>LACs are no different than most other universities with a large arts and science component. They rely on a combination of lectures, small group discussions and laboratory results. They rely less and less (outside of problem sets and other hard science formulas) on learning by rote or gross memorization of specific facts. Liberal arts students are expected to produce their own examples of scholarly work at an early stage in their college careers. The viewpoints they hold are less important than the process by which they arrived at them. And, that would probably be true of the professors’ viewpoints as well, in those classes where their viewpoints are relevant. Otherwise, I haven’t a clue what you are talking about.</p>
<p>geeps2 - good luck to you and your son. I would give up on trying to discuss with the terminally offended; it’s beginning to look like a bear baiting and you’re the bear. I just wonder if the folks who continue debating after you have already thanked them for their opinions, can imagine sending their kids to a school where they would be attacked as relentlessly as you have been for simply asking a question that differs from that area’s conventional wisdom.</p>
<p>John W
now that was that most helpful post yet…thanks</p>
<p>Asking for clarification and/or definitions is “attacking.” I see…</p>
<p>nooo, it’s more like asking a biased question of people who believe best intentions and attempt to address the underlying concern, but then responding in an aggressive and rude manner with those who attempted to help, and only behaving politely with those posters who share the prejudice( all whom have fewer than 30 posts ironically), and when it’s obvious the basis of the bias cannot be defended other than to say- it’s obvious :rolleyes:, then replies that they are not going to continue the discussion.
( Ofcourse there never * was* a discussion, just attacks on those who questioned the underlying premise for the request for " help".</p>
<p>Yes, it was obvious…take your blinders off. I was extremely patient…</p>
<p>He doesn’t want teacher’s expressing their political beliefs in classes that don’t warrant a political viewpoint…is that asking too much?"</p>
<p>“This is basically my main concern…do professors at LACs in general want their viewpoint upheld and hold grudges against differing views?”</p>
<p>“That was never mentioned…just concerned in regards to schools where their professors push there views.”</p>
<p>“Again, I’m looking for schools were professors do not express their personal beliefs in classes were they are not needed…that’s all.”</p>
<p>“Slithey…I agree…that would be a great discussion for the classroom…if the teacher is preaching it as a fact though, and belittling any other views…then that would be wrong.”</p>
<p>.“I don’t know how to be any clearer…I don’t want anything discussed as fact, if it is not…that goes for religion, global warming, whatever. A good professor will create an atmosphere where all views can be heard… no one being scorned or ridiculed.”</p>
<p>“and again, not “occasional liberal view”…pushing, and or stating liberal opinion as fact”</p>
<p>“I don’t know how many ways I can say it…and to be honest, this is getting old. I think my point is and was clear…I don’t believe professors should be talking about controversial topics as if only one view should be the accepted view.”</p>
<p>my OP was not to find conservative colleges…I was asking if NE LAC have a tendency to express their liberal opinions in classes where that would not be appropriate or needed.</p>
<p>“It’s obvious that most colleges slant to the left, it is another question if their bias is carried over to the classroom”</p>
<p>“My post was simply to find out whether the NE LACs tended to show more bias than other colleges”</p>
<p>“I’m not looking for any specific type of college…AGAIN, I was inquiring if NE LACs were made up of predominantly biased prof who liked to push their views…that’s it…period…there is no hidden agenda.”</p>
<p>“the only thing I find relevant is what colleges have a reputation for pushing the liberal agenda…that’s all. Somehow this thread turned into liberals defending why this is OK…as everyone should hear all views. Hearing all views is fine, a professor pushing the liberal agenda on students is not. Big difference there.”
geeps20 is online now</p>
<p>This might be a waste of time, but Geeps, in your view, what is an example of a professor trying to push his views inappropriately, and what is an example of a professor appropriately letting his students know his point of view? What if a professor said one of the following, supporting it with evidence?</p>
<p>[In an econ class] “Rent control is harmful and unsuccessful.”</p>
<p>[In an econ class] “A gas tax (or a carbon tax) is a good way to raise money and slow global warming.”</p>
<p>[In a history class] “Ronald Reagan was the best American President.”</p>
<p>[In a history class] “George Bush was the worst American President.”</p>
<p>[In a religion class] “In the Bible, it says that Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem because of a Roman census. In reality, there was probably no such census.”</p>
<p>Fang…at this point, I would say it is pointless. I’m done here unless someone else feels the need to throw insults…in which case I will respond.</p>
<p>geeps–the traditional, and good, advice for parents as they explore colleges is to visit the school, sit through a couple of classes. gather some impressions for yourself. let your son (and next your daughter) wander around and form their own impressions. on the various college websites you can get a sense of each department, each professor and his/her research/publications. many even have interviews with faculty online. the colleges are always trying to attract bright kids who can add to the campus dynamic in a positive way. i’m assuming you live in the new england area so it may be easy to travel to many of the schools you ask about. i’d encourage you to be open to visiting schools you may have heard negative things about as well as schools you’ve heard positive things about. one never knows what the child might think until they see and experience a place. i suspect your thoughts will evolve and expectations change as you go through this process. it certain did for us, as my two kids narrowed down their choices and our conversations continued during their soph-senior years. it was actually quite fun. . . now paying for it all is a different thing!</p>
<p>again, good luck.</p>
<p>I don’t know why the OP is being demonized. His original post simply stated that his kid didn’t like liberal opinions by teachers that seem forced on them. He wanted to know if this indeed was a problem in colleges and with those professors. While some; like mini and others initially responded indirectly that it WAS common and that his son might be better off at certain schools; the thread evolved almost immediately into the attitude of; “You son shouldn’t even consider this facet of college life and should be WILLING to attend schools that MIGHT have professors who ARE like that; because he needs to be open to all opinions of others. And if he doesn’t like such methods of some professors, then he isn’t an open minded individual”. That is exactly the meaning of the gist from many of the replies.</p>
<p>The direct answer to the OP question is; YES, there are some college professors who pretty much force their opinion and position on their students. There are some schools that is happens at more than others. It happens at both liberal as well as conservative schools. And that it is up to your son to look at the schools and determine which one has the best payoff for what he is trying to learn, and which one he is willing to put up with such pushy opinions in return for the education.</p>
<p>But something that should NEVER BE FORGOTTEN. People need to stop looking at college/universities as a place where the school is INVITING you and that you are a guest. And as a GUEST, you are expected to adapt to THE SCHOOL’S WAY. The truth is, the university WORKS FOR YOU!!! You are the BOSS!!! You are PAYING THEM!!! The only reason the CHOOSE who comes and who doesn’t is because of limited space. In other words, they don’t have room for ALL STUDENTS. Just like a restaurant sometimes turns people away and says they have no more tables. Just remember, you are PAYING THEM. They work for you; NOT the other way around. So, list the schools that your son wants to go to because of the course of study that he wants. Then research those schools. Here at CC, you can find a forum on just about every school. Find out the attitudes and opinions of the professors. Determine which school can teach your son in a method that he is comfortable with. If a certain school can’t or doesn’t; don’t consider it like you are the job applicant and are trying to apply for a job at a company. THAT IS A NEGATIVE. BE POSITIVE. Consider yourself the EMPLOYER. You are HIRING a school to EDUCATE YOUR SON. You are INTERVIEWING THEM. Throw out the interviewees that DON’T have a good resume. Narrow your list down to those that have a good resume.</p>
<p>Most of all, don’t believe that a school’s NAME means anything. It DOESN’T. Anyone who thinks going to HARVARD or similar should be the ultimate goal of any student, is the one who is closed minded and wearing blinders. If my educational and professional goals included a course of study that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, etc… was known as the BEST at; then I would have them on my “Interview” list. But if I knew that my ultimate goal was to get into a hard science field; e.g. marine biology; electronic engineering, etc… Then Harvard, Yale, etc… would NOT be where I would want to go. Some people are prejudice when it comes to colleges. They think that certain schools have the BEST EXPERIENCES for a student; because they have the BEST STUDENTS attending; and they have the BEST PROFESSORS; etc… This people are delusional. Actually; these people are straight up WRONG. Now, for the person who has no idea what they want to major in; so they go for a liberal art degree; personally I think they are totally wasting their money by going to harvard, yale, or any EXPENSIVE college. But if they have the money, however, then it’s not a waste of money. But to walk out with an $80,000 debt and a degree in mythology from harvard IS a waste of money. Too many people go to a college because of it’s NAME. Don’t do that. FIT is MORE important than NAME. Don’t get me wrong; Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or ANY SCHOOL is the PERFECT FIT for some students. But when a person says they want to go to any school; Harvard or Michigan State; the 1st question out of your mouth should be WHY??? If they say Michigan State because that’s all they can afford living in Michigan; then that is a BAD ANSWER. Money can ALWAYS be found for college. The RIGHT answer should be; Well Michigan state has one of the largest Research and Development science departments in the entire country. And what I want to study in in that school and I would love to be part of that R&D. EXCELLENT ANSWER. If the person who wants harvard says; Well, because it’s HARVARD. Who wouldn’t want to go? That is a really BAD answer. If they say that they eventually want to become a large firm lawyer or international businessman; and they want their undergraduate to be in the poly-sci or other areas that Harvard is know for; plus it’s easier to get into Harvard Law if you received your undergraduate from them; then that IS A GREAT answer. Anyway; good luck to you.</p>