<p>I imagine there is more to this story than we are hearing. </p>
<p>This student wants to be a doctor. The course load in med school will be significantly harder than a senior year load with thesis included. And “severe” introversion could be a problem also. </p>
<p>I hope she gets it all sorted out. I, too, am confused about why this delays her graduation so long.</p>
<p>The simple question is where does the 5k go if they are not charging you for credit hours. I suspect they charge it as independent study or whatever it takes to be registered. OTOH, if her advisor is not going to be around for summer to sign off and if she can’t graduate before January, has anyone checked into why she needs to register during summer?</p>
<p>Just asked my S who just finished his senior comp, similar process at a LAC. It was a year long process, he started the research last summer, lots of details along the way, many of which he needed to navigate himself. Thankfully he finished, several seniors did not. They will need to enroll again in the fall as “super seniors.” Full price for parents. This is not uncommon, the person did not complete degree requirements. Now, there were questionable advising, shy student etc. But it must get done. Good luck to her.</p>
<p>"several seniors did not. They will need to enroll again in the fall as “super seniors.” "</p>
<p>This sounds like a moneymaking scheme to me.</p>
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<p>Probably college residency rules if one didn’t complete graduation requirements. Probably similar to how Columbia U treated my grad school friends after they forgot to turn in the “Application to graduate” bureaucratic form on/before the deadline to graduate in the spring.</p>
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<p>This is a very good and relevant point. I agree with your concern.</p>
<p>texaspg- I believe she only is being given the option of finishing in the fall term, hence the one $5000 charge. I don’t know why they’re not offering the summer term option, it could be as others posted above, that the adviser is not going to be around for the summer.</p>
<p>Many people choose small LAC’s for their students who are like this girl. It is assumed that you get more personalized attention from schools like this. Yes, she is 21 and needs to take responsibility, but she has had a very successful 4 years at this school and has a pretty high gpa, so she’s not incompetent by any stretch of the imagination.</p>
<p>I fear the problem lies in both her and her parents’ great aversion to conflict and self advocating.</p>
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<p>While it is ostensibly an undergrad thesis, the academic standards and requirements required to complete such thesis at most decent LACs/universities I knew of…including my own was such that they were very similar to Masters programs at the elite/respectable universities. </p>
<p>In some cases, some of the requirements for undergrad honors thesis at my LAC were higher than those of some Masters programs at some elite universities commonly lionized here on CC.</p>
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<p>While this is true, this is in the context of undergrads with the maturity and independence expected of young adults…not high school teens or adolescents who still need handholding from parents and teachers. </p>
<p>Some of what you and others with similar definitions of “personalized attention” are advocating what even my urban public magnet HS teachers would consider “spoon-feeding” and “micromanagement” more appropriate for elementary and middle school children.</p>
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<p>Why would it be considered a money making scheme? The student did not complete the requirements for graduation. In order to graduate, student must return, register, complete the course and pay the required fees. The same process would hold true if student had failed a course that is not offered in the summer. Would we be this enraged if student needed one class to graduate, the course is not offered in the summer and would have to return in the fall to complete the course?</p>
<p>I remember my D having to write a 75 page thesis in order to graduate. This does not happen in a vacuum as student would have to have topic approved and would have to check in regarding progress.</p>
<p>Sybbie - at the undergrad level, the students are expected to finish in 4 years, especially, if they are attending a 4 year LAC which is supposed to handhold them through the process. If there are a bunch of students left by the wayside at the end of 4 years and are required to do a 5th year for a silly thing like an undergraduate thesis (I think of this as a made up requirement making the school sound too cool but that’s just me), then there is either something wrong with the school or they are just using it to make extra income by forcing the students to spend more time at the school.</p>
<p>The failing should be the exception rather than the norm. Whole bunch of seniors returning as super seniors sounds just wrong.</p>
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<p>The student is gone from campus. She is not using any facilities nor going to any classes. She will be turning in a thesis to the school 3 weeks late. Where is the school ‘losing’ $5000 in this equation? What other institution can get away with this kind of arbitrary charge?</p>
<p>"
In some cases, some of the requirements for undergrad honors thesis at my LAC were higher than those of some Masters programs at some elite universities commonly lionized here on CC."
“Some of what you and others with similar definitions of “personalized attention” are advocating what even my urban public magnet HS teachers would consider “spoon-feeding” and “micromanagement” more appropriate for elementary and middle school children.”</p>
<p>Cobrat, this isn’t about you, Oberlin, or Stuy. How does it help the OP for you to reiterate that Oberlin has a hard thesis requirement or what Stuy teachers thought back in the 1990s? Do you not get, after being told repeatedly, that “what Stuy teachers think” is irrelevant to anyone who didn’t go to Stuy? It’s not all about you. The OP is asking for advice to help her friend, not a digression into the never ending world of Stuy?</p>
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If her adviser were taking a sabbatical, would she have to wait until 2015? I’m not being sarcastic.</p>
<p>My basic advice would be for her to finish it NOW. Her parents should go over all of the comments by the professors and thesis advisers, be the daughter’s worst critic, and ensure that the thing lines up with requirements. Eat, sleep, live, and dream this thesis between now and mid-June. </p>
<p>Then turn it in and fight like hell for August graduation. </p>
<p>The other issue is the D’s unwillingness to advocate for herself. At this point, it’s a big mistake that has affected her college graduation. It’s up to HER to decide how much she’s willing to let this personality quirk dominate her life. (I say this as the most intensely introverted and shy person around, who quickly learned that not being proactive and advocating for oneself is objectively stupid.)</p>
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<p>Not to that extent. The undergrad…especially one about to graduate to go on to grad school/work is also expected to be proactive and independent enough to manage requirements so he/she graduates in 4 years. </p>
<p>IME as an LAC student/alum, the ones who were super-seniors not in a 5 year program didn’t know how to prioritize academic requirements to graduate in 4 years. </p>
<p>Even with most of our Profs reaching out to help them…there’s only so much a Prof can do for students who don’t do what it takes to finish on time barring documented illness or disability.</p>
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<p>This seems to be mainly generational. I came of age when a greater proportion of parents in this situation would put most/all of the onus on the student and hold him/her responsible for not completing graduation requirements such as in this very situation. </p>
<p>Far fewer parents back then would be inclined to pin half or most of the blame on the school and even cast aspersions about this being a “moneymaking scheme”. Especially considering $5000 isn’t going to amount to a hill of beans in the greater scheme of maintaining a private college’s budget.</p>
<p>Did the student ask her professor or department chair if she can take an incomplete and turn the thesis in over the summer. Did she go directly to the department chair to find out what exactly her options are? It sounds like student is having a really hard time advocating for her self or trying to create win-win situations.</p>
<p>cobrat - so what percentage usually returns for a 5th year?</p>
<p>Something doesn’t sit right with the whole story. The kid is supposed to be pre-med, which means she knows all about requirements, dates, advisors, competitive admissions, advocating for oneself at interviews, and deadlines. If she thinks she’s pre-med, she likely has been watching her GPA for a long time, and has planned LORs (which would often come from a thesis advisor). Then, at the last minute, she does a bellyflop?</p>
<p>(I smell “derivative” work…and the school being charitable.)</p>
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<p>TPG,</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the ownership, responsibility and accountability to make sure that everything is done so that the student is on the 4 year plan is on the student. </p>
<p>All I can say is how it played out in my house- D knew going in that we are on the 4 year plan and was only paying for 4 years (not the 4 year and one summer plan, the 4 year & one term plan or the 5 year plan).</p>
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<p>Hard to say as a decent minority are enrolled in the 5-year Double Degree program so they often got lumped with other students who don’t graduate within 4-years by publications like USNWR and Fiske’s Guide. </p>
<p>That and the fact many Oberlin students take time off to pursue political activism or creative arts/musical careers before returning along with those who couldn’t prioritize were factors why when I attended, my LAC had a below-average 4-year graduation rate compared to other peer LACs at that time. Recalled it being somewhere below 70% during the early part of my undergrad years.</p>
<p><a href=“I%20smell%20%22derivative%22%20work…”>quote</a>
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<p>I have no idea what that sentence means, care to elaborate?</p>
<p>She has indeed done a bellyflop. She will need LOR’s. The situation is not good, which is why I reached out to the CC community.</p>
<p>I think the idea of getting the thesis in by mid-June and fighting like hell for an August diploma is probably the right approach to take. At this point I don’t know if med school is really the best idea, but that aside, the most important thing is completing the undergraduate degree</p>
<p>Sybbie - I understand it is owned by the student. </p>
<p>I just don’t believe a bunch of students should be retained back at school for a fifth year on the basis of a graduation thesis if that is the only thing holding them back from graduating. I don’t want to take over OP’s thread since this discussion is probably about a totally different school that murmur introduced and so will leave it at that.</p>