<p>“I have no idea what that sentence means, care to elaborate?”</p>
<p>As in “soft” plagiarism. Or “invented” results.</p>
<p>^Had not considered that possibility mini, although given the student I’d find it highly unlikely. However, good to put that out there, my investigation continues. </p>
<p>I will add the dimension that this girl is my son’s long time girlfriend, so my interest in this case may be better understood.</p>
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<p>If the graduation thesis is a graduation requirement for all students at a particular college*, the institution is well within its rights to retain them for a fifth year. The student knew/should have known this was one of the things they signed up for when they matriculated at colleges with such requirements. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if it is a college like mine, they may be able to graduate sans thesis but lose the “Honors” designation. If the grades on the thesis was too abysmal, they may need to take 3-6 more credits to make up for them.</p>
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<li>i.e. Reed</li>
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<p>This is a serious charge. If this happened at my LAC with its honor code, the student wouldn’t only lose the honors designation and must make up for the lost credits…he/she may face possible summary expulsion for academic dishonesty/cheating if found guilty by the judicial board…and inventing results or plagiarism would definitely fall under that.</p>
<p>Tread very carefully if this is an issue as having that on your record will impede or even bar you from many professions…including medical.</p>
<p>She might not be comfortable admitting it. I certainly wouldn’t push. However, the story simply doesn’t fit together,</p>
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<p>I don’t think there’s enough information provided by OP to assume such a serious charge even as a possibility. Most colleges…even those without honor codes will not just fail a thesis and tell the student to make it up if such charges are in play. </p>
<p>From what OP provided, it sounds more like the thesis just didn’t pass muster and the thesis committee/advisor/department are asking her to redo it.</p>
<p>Yes, the thesis did not pass muster, there’s been no indication of any kind of plagiarism or other honor code violation.</p>
<p>Was the due date May 4 or did she turn it in late? May 4 seems like a late due date if it is a graduation requirement. Yalemom, in one post you said that the thesis was 85 per cent complete. Did she turn in a complete thesis or is she estimating that 15 per cent will have to be redone? I agree with others who say that extreme introversion is going to make medical school difficult.</p>
<p>Oh, it might not rise to the level of an “honor code” violation. It just might not pass muster as “original research”. (Or it might - but the school certainly doesn’t want to pursue that angle with a top student who is graduating.) </p>
<p>This is a total pain…for the school. It adversely impacts their four-graduation rate stats. It might negatively impact their med school admissions stats. If the student is pursuing med. school admission, she’d be all over the deadlines, self-advocacy, GPA, etc. stuff.</p>
<p>It just doesn’t have the ring of truth to it. </p>
<p>Is there are mental health problem?</p>
<p>I believe she turned in the thesis on May 4th knowing it wasn’t complete, but not saying anything. I’m not sure if she thought maybe they wouldn’t scrutinize it as much as they did? Again, this reticence to confront reality and deal with uncomfortable conversations is a hallmark of this student’s personality, and she is obviously learning a very painful lesson about it.</p>
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<p>There were NO interim deadlines? NO required meetings with an advisor/committee? That just seems odd to me. </p>
<p>My D had to do a capstone to graduate, which is probably rinky-dink compared with this student’s project. Even for that, there were three meetings with department faculty spread out over spring semester, in which she was required to show her work thus far. One of those meetings was about a week before the due date, and the project had to be basically finished at that point. Obviously, the idea was to make sure there were no last-second surprises.</p>
<p>At the other end of the rinky-dink scale, my brother who holds a PhD from Stanford also had numerous interim checkpoints.</p>
<p>At my D1’s college she chose to do a senior honors thesis. It was by far the most stressful year of her college experience, and she was in constant fear that her thesis would be rejected (it wasn’t, it actually was submitted by the faculty to a national contest in her major). But she was hugely stressed and rewriting right up until the end. She had drafts due at various points (at least 2) to her advisor. I am guessing this kid also had drafts due and either missed her target dates or got feedback she did not follow. If the professor somehow blew off their side of it (was provided with drafts but refused to meet with the student for example), then I think the parents have a case to make to at least try to reduce the fee. Otherwise it does fall on the kid…</p>
<p>My D also had to defend her thesis in front of 3 professors a couple of weeks before graduation. I think she had to turn it in about 10 days ahead of time, and they made a final decision on whether it would move forward to the defense committee. I expect they don’t want to waste the committee’s time if it is not up to snuff. Not sure if the defense committee is part of this kid’s path, but that could be another factor in waiting until the fall. You need more than just one professor for that.</p>
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Alternatively, she could have no results, inconsistent or inconclusive results, a conclusion that does not match her results, or an experiment that does not match her hypothesis. A badly done thesis could merit another term; no need to think that she didn’t come up with it herself.</p>
<p>Since she turned in an incomplete thesis that’s a graduation requirement, it seems like the school did not have many options, but not sure why she has to wait till January.</p>
<p>I believe the story because I lived it.</p>
<p>My D had good grades, success in her major, and a Fulbright in hand (in other words, not a slacker who was unqualified for graduate school or other advanced academic opportunities).</p>
<p>She worked hard on her thesis, but she got zero feedback from her thesis advisor (a different professor from her general academic advisor) until a couple of weeks before the final due date, at which time he declared it unsatisfactory with VERY little explanation as to why. She had to try a different tack and work grueling hours, using other faculty resources for “advice.” Because her advisor was absolutely unavailable to her between his disapproval and the final due date, she had no idea whether she was going to get credit for the thesis. I feared we were going to be in the same situation as the OP’s friend, traveling to a graduation that wasn’t going to happen. </p>
<p>My D mentioned several kids in her college who weren’t graduating because they didn’t complete a satisfactory thesis. I was very surprised that this would happen, as–until the thesis crisis–I thought that the school had always provided excellent advising and faculty support.</p>
<p>FYI, those students at D’s school have to wait until December to graduate. No idea about fees.</p>
<p>Wow, I went out to buy fabric for just a bit. For my S, the comp was a huge deal it require a junior semester research class, possible research over the summer, a preliminary outline and discussion with advisor, the actual 50+ page bound paper and then it was defended in from of a committee. He just returned from presenting it at a conference. This is all spelled out from freshmen year on and it is a serious process. Those that didn’t finish may have missed classes, turned in a poor paper etc. this particular LAC does not have summer classes only independent study which you must receive a grant for (highly unlikely in this situation) so going the next semester is the necessary evil. Not a money making scheme, but a get yourself together.</p>
<p>Why is there confusion about January? Historically most colleges have awarded degrees twice year (big ones in particular). In May/June (when they finish classes) and midyear (typically January) for those who finish their academic work mid-year. My dad was a mid-year high school AND college graduate. It is essentially at the semester break when someone can finish their requirements and be awarded a degree. They don’t just do it on October 12 because someone turned something in then.</p>
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<p>This mentality if she actually thought that makes absolutely no sense as a senior/honors thesis is considered one of the most important, if not the most important piece of work one does to complete one’s graduation requirements. </p>
<p>If one wants to half-ass something in college/grad school…the thesis is certainly not it.</p>
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mini, you’ve twice said that pre-med students are “all over” deadlines and self-advocacy. I disagree - they should be, but that does not mean that they are. I noticed little difference between my pre-med and non-pre-med friends in that regard; perhaps the pre-meds were even more reticent than their peers, as they perceive medicine as a profession that requires brains and compassion more than charm and extroversion. There can also be a drive towards independence (i.e. “I can do this myeslf, and if I can’t do this myself, why would I go to medical school?”) that may underscore some of these issues. </p>
<p>Ultimately, this is a 22-year-old pre-med, not a hard-charging litigator.</p>
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<p>I have the same questions. New advisor + paralyzed (figuratively) student+ math topic thesis = disastrous outcome. The ball was dropped by the student, was the ball also dropped by the advisor? department? entire school? Inquiring minds want to know… </p>
<p>I’m having lunch with her this week. May know more details by then.</p>
<p>Not mental health issues, more like a difficult personality type. Her quietness can come off as aloofness.</p>
<p>Well, these days, if she is not all over this stuff, as a graduating senior, she is “pre-med” but not pre-med. ;)</p>