<p>Being an introvert, may have nothing to do with the actual issue.
The young adult was faced with a deadline that she chose to risk not meeting. IF a senior thesis is required to be accepted by a certain date in order to graduate, then by turning it in so close to graduation-and not having it meet the departments standards, she risked not graduating with her class.
The financial aspect is not nearly as important, in the scheme of things.</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing your D’s story lonestarmom, it helps add perspective. I’m glad to hear your D was able to pull through those challenges.</p>
<p>also thank you ariesathena, your comments have been very helpful.</p>
<p>and yes cobrat, the thesis is not the thing to half-ass. Maybe future CC users searching this post will be instructed by this cautionary tale.</p>
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<p>Well, there you have it. Advisors advise, they neither force students to act nor guarantee that their presence and help has desired results.</p>
<p>I don’t know how anyone can put the blame on anyone but the student. Doesn’t make her a bad person or a bad student, but she didn’t meet the requirements, knew she didn’t meet the requirements, and took a gamble that she lost. Hopefully, lesson learned. This isn’t the end of the world and she will probably be better for it in the end.</p>
<p>“Not mental health issues, more like a difficult personality type. Her quietness can come off as aloofness.”</p>
<p>My d. is quiet, aloof, and looks down at the rest of the world as mere mortals. AND she was (and is) always on top of absolutely every deadline, every requirement, every meeting with her advisor (some of which take place on Skype), every fellowship application, every piece of correspondence. She knows she has to be. </p>
<p>I really don’t see what introversion has to do with it. Heck, she’s been a top student for four years, introversion and all.</p>
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<p>Very true words, especially the last two sentences.</p>
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That has not been the experience that I have seen with my peers.</p>
<p>(To be clear, I am not saying that one can simply waltz through college and into medical school, like the physician version of Elle Woods, but am saying that kids who screw up one or two things can and do get into medical school. Often, they will take a year or two, or three, off before applying; or everything else is so strong and they can articulate what went wrong that medical schools feel that they will be successful.)</p>
<p>Reading this thread, I remembered the occasional student I have had during 30 years of college teaching who did not follow the guidelines for research papers. I remember a few who did not incorporate feedback or even went in the opposite direction of what was suggested. I remember some who avoided meeting in a timely manner to discuss progress and ignoring my offers to review drafts of written work. But finding out that the student here turned in a project this important that was only 85% finished and hoped no one would notice, was quite a surprise. Anyone considering a career in medicine needs to know or learn that being assertive, timely and honest about one’s work is essential. (No one would want a doctor who did 85% of a physical exam or surgery and hope no one would notice.) I would feel different about consequences if the student had admitted the professor that the paper was incomplete. </p>
<p>This could be a valuable learning experience for the student, and I think it is counterproductive to put most of the focus on blaming the school or a professor/advisor.</p>
<p>Going forward, the goal is for her to graduate in as timely a way as possible.</p>
<p>I’m concerned about her mental state now and how it will impact her graduating. </p>
<p>Reflecting on the initial post and the comments, we all feel the enormity of the situation. </p>
<p>If this is how we feel, imagine the student and her family-- Depressed and anxious come to mind. Not a good combination.</p>
<p>Is there any way she could talk with someone, as she finishes her thesis, to support her in finishing and ideally help her graduate.</p>
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<p>Because a number of posters have commented on this part of the problem,I think I need to clarify this quote as being one of my own conjecture. I do not know if this is what she thought, I was merely wondering if it could be a possibility. I don’t know that she was trying to sneak it in under the radar. It doesn’t seem like something she would do intentionally to get away with anything, more like a desperate last attempt to avert a crisis that in the end was not averted in the least.</p>
<p>I think Cobrat guess is quite on target. It is very likely the small LAC is Reed.</p>
<p>I am very well acquainted with a student who did not complete a graduation requirement to the satisfaction of a professor. The school allowed her to walk through graduation, but gave her a blank diploma. Fortunately, no extra money was required to complete the requirement to the professor’s satisfaction. I know the OP said this is a non-confrontational family, but, if graduation hasn’t taken place yet (sorry…I may not have read all of the posts completely) perhaps this would be an option that could be discussed with the school administration.</p>
<p>Schools that offer Aug/Sept degree dates usually have a summer school program and/or a graduate school. Many LAC’s offer neither, so they do not have an end-of-summer degree date.</p>
<p>This is a “teachable moment” thread for one of my kids. My D will be entering college this fall and is very much an introvert and the “aloof” type; not one to self advocate for herself very well. And she is going to a college that has a senior research or thesis requirement. I told her about this situation, and we talked about meeting deadlines, using feedback given, being persistent with the advisor if necessary, and looking for additional reviewers if she is feeling like she is not getting what she needs from the advisor. Hoping this is not us in four years posting out here…</p>
<p>This has been an interesting thread to read. I’m very introverted, and have a hearing loss such that I lived in fear that I would miss critical information and not have to nerve to speak up about it when I got to college-but I learned fast that my success depended on facing my fears. A student who intends to study medicine or any other difficult subject is risking his or her future by letting their fears cripple them, as the girl in the OP did.</p>
<p>UNLESS, maybe it wasn’t a factor of her crippling shyness at all. Maybe she got pushed into a major she really didn’t want and a career path she would rather not be following. Perhaps this failure to complete her thesis (She didn’t finish on time, and she knew it) is a cry for help in choosing the path SHE would prefer. She wouldn’t be the first. CC is full of posts by students desperate to forge their own path away from their parents.</p>
<p>Either way, by senior year at ANY college, with a plan to go to a demanding program like medical school followed by the demanding work of residency, etc., a student should darn well be able to advocate for him or her self and get help for whatever concerns them regarding assignments. They should also be able to meet deadlines and turn in complete work. This person did not, and if the parents sue, I would expect the college to laugh them out of the room.</p>
<p>My 8th grader is spending her long weekend completing her “graduation” portfolio review in which the students must justify and explain examples of work in every subject, from PE to algebra. They are grilled by a panel of teachers to a satisfactory conclusion or they don’t graduate. They do the same thing in 10th grade and again as seniors. They knew the deadlines and time checks as well as the requirements in plenty of time. It’s not rocket science to know when something is due. The OP situation sounds nothing like lonestar’s situation.</p>
<p>Put me with the group that doesn’t understand this. It seems as though the college is basically charging $5000 for someone to read the thesis. Heck, I read Ph.D. theses for free.</p>
<p>My view would be different if what is missing from the thesis is not proper formatting, but instead a novel mathematical result. That would probably require her to confer with an adviser one-on-one multiple times until she is able to generate something original.</p>
<p>Can she enroll for summer, but not enroll for fall? The arrangement with twice-a-year graduation only is a fairly common one. If that’s the case, then I would say it’s no big deal that the diploma will say January 2014. Presumably she was planning a gap year to do medically related work, volunteer, and (probably) study for the MCAT? Lots of students do that these days. I think that the way that she spends the time will be more important than the technicality of the graduation date.</p>
<p>QMP did a senior thesis, but as I recall the deadline was more than a month ahead of graduation. That gave plenty of time for evaluation and feedback, ahead of graduation.</p>
<p>The idea of the college not telling the student that she would not graduate, when her family was already en route to graduation seems like a very poor practice to me. That kind of thing is likely to stop alumni donations in perpetuity.</p>
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<p>I don’t believe that OP has gotten the whole story from S’s girlfriend. Did she at least confide in him that she was struggling to get this done, so that he could talk her into getting assistance? Did your son also have to complete a thesis for graduation? I am surprised that they did not ask each other how is it going?</p>
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<p>If Op turned in her thesis being ~85% completed, she knew when she turned it in that there was a chance that she was not going to graduate. </p>
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<p>I believe that it was the student who allowed her parents to travel cross country to attend a graduation that she had a strong belief was not going to happen (she knew when she turned in an incomplete thesis that the odds were against her graduating. Why did she not tell her parents that she was struggling to get this done? I guess by now, graduation has come an gone and student has gone home with her parents. I am quite sure that this situation is not the norm and most students do complete their thesis and those that don’t may have some extenuating circumstances (illness, not being in school senior spring and have made contingencies to get it done when they return to school).</p>
<p>Usually a senior doing a thesis knows well before senior year that the thesis is due at the end of the year (or at least the last day of class). It is not unusual for students in honors programs or non-honors programs at some colleges to do a senior thesis as a requirement for graduation (I think that Yale also requires one so this could be a cautionary tale for your Yale15 student).</p>
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<p>Many LACs do not have summer sessions, hence the need for her to enroll for fall for this to be accepted.</p>
<p>It doesn’t make sense because it’s conjecture heaped on hearsay. The truth, if it’s even known by the girl’s family, may be too embarrassing to admit to a boyfriend’s parent. I think mini’s on the right track - pure guess on my part. The details of when she can graduate and fees to be paid <em>should</em> be straightforward policies of the school. I think you kind of agree to the policies when you enroll. The question is what did she submit, did she receive adequate advising and did she follow through? </p>
<p>Seems to me there’s a common type of problem here on CC where the victim is a student who was blindsided by the heavy application of a school rule. The stories are mostly second hand and commenters line up behind the student in indignation at the injustice. I think it’s too much work for a school to try to trip up seniors in order to extract more money. I think the notion that these things shouldn’t happen at a LAC because it’s more hands on is a bit of an insult to graduates of LACs - as if they couldn’t manage a “to do” list like their university counterparts. Every situation has a point of view and as parents we naturally take the parental side, just as I think Martha Stewart’s mom probably took her side and we can argue a prison sentence was harsh but there was something there.</p>
<p>I mean no disrespect to any poster I disagree with, as these discussions often degrade. Just my .02 - and yes, I probably am too old/jaded.</p>
<p>I know I don’t have the whole story. I will have more answers this week. Yes graduation has come and gone. It would have seemed that ‘walking’ but not getting the diploma and finishing the thesis over the summer would have been the most kind thing the LAC could have done, but they did not choose that.</p>
<p>As Tuppence sensitively pointed out, she must clearly be experiencing feelings 1000x worse than those of us watching from the sidelines. I need to remember that and not come on too strong when we have lunch. </p>
<p>Sybbie, your suspicions are quite probably correct. She did not tell her bf anything during the semester until she called him from her room in tears while the rest of the seniors were at the graduation ceremony…he was shocked.</p>
<p>Clearly there are major issues…</p>
<p>I’m glad this can serve as a springboard for conversations with younger students. Yes, QMP, my Yalie will have a huge project senior year that he will have to keep on top of.</p>
<p>Oh, and no, it is not Reed, when/if this is satisfactorily settled I will come back and update this thread as to the school.</p>
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<p>It also gives most 17-22+ year old young adults such short shrift to view them as so incapable of basic self-management barring documented illness or disability that they must be treated as if they were still in K-12. </p>
<p>Especially considering a senior/honors undergrad thesis is essentially an independent research project conducted by the student concerned with some guidance…not micromanagement from the advisor.</p>