I handle a rental house for a family member. The current tenant is midway through a multi year lease. The house is in NorCal, inland, so hot (80s & 90s) in the summer. When they moved in they asked the contractor about the wooden patio cover, it has those 1 or 2" x 4-6" pieces all across a large concrete patio, they wanted to know about putting those corrugated plastic pieces on to “roof it.” He gave them a price and they never mentioned it to me, but he had warned me it might be coming. Last year they asked if I would be willing to replace the shade cloth that is on it as the half the cloth is tattered; however we ran into a much more important and time consuming repair (and expensive, well over $10k) and the subject never came up again.
Had I known there was tattered cloth between tenants, I would have had my guy rip it all off, it’s nice, but not a requirement.
However, these folks have seen it and want it & want it replaced.
My conundrum is that I have no interest in having the cloth as a home feature, I’d just as soon remove it all, but now they like it.
I’ve spent a ton of money the last year or two on repairs and long term maintenance issues on this 30 year old home & am in no mood to spend on an extra, I am trying to put aside funds to redo the dated kitchen when it is time to sell.
But is that unreasonable?
My other issue is that the area is small and booming after a miserable slow climb out of the 2008 downturn so a lot of “guys” went out of business and the “guy” who’d been grateful to take care of the house for several years has now moved on to building homes and is not interested.
Even if I were willing to do this, I am not willing to pay top dollar the way I had to on the critical repair last year.
What is fair and reasonable in a rental?
Depending on how soon you intend to sell the shade cloth could help. I also think it’s reasonable to ask for the repair.
Having lived in the Central Valley of CA, a covered patio is highly valued as much for the keeping the sun off the exterior wall as for sitting outside.
It’s tough when you have to pay someone for basic repairs. Good luck on a handyman.
My feeling is that if they rented it with a covered patio…it’s only fair to maintain a covered patio. It was part of the deal at signing…and should continue to be part of the deal. Now…you have every right to just replace the cloth…that would be fair. But if I were you, I’d be tempted to try the corrugated plastic. Could you work a deal where you let the tenants install the corrugated plastic, and cut them a discount on their rent for a few months to cover the cost? These folks plan to stay longer than you do. They should have their homes the way they want them if at all possible.
My feeling is if it’s not designated as a covered patio in the lease and the cost to repair is $10k it is not reasonable for them to expect it. If they don’t like it they can move when their lease is up. They should have taken steps to prevent it from tearing, either by notifying you before extensive damage was done or securing it themselves. Also I hope you require them to prove they have renter’s insurance.
The law in my state(not Ca.) is in keeping with post 3, contrary to post 2. A unit can be habitable without an awning. MaryGJ’s reasoning would tell a landlord they could not repaint a home a different color because that wasn’t how it was when they struck the deal. They may want their home the way they want, but this isn’t their house. They are living in someone else’s house. They may not get all they want.
So the matter for me, would become one of practicality, not legality. Does this repair make the home more valuable? Likely to keep tenants rather than lose them? Would the tenants consider paying part of the cost, since this repair isn’t required of you? If they are willing to pay a portion, it is better for them to help with installation costs, rather than purchase cost. That way when they move, they cannot claim any ownership of the new cloth.
This sounds like an expensive, but unnecessary repair. I’m sure it would be very nice for them, but costly for you. I would consider, is it worth it to fix this, as far as eventually reselling it? If not, no, sorry, it’s too expensive for me to replace. I do not think you have an obligation to do this at all. If they are upset, they can move. Would it be worth it to fix it up so they don’t? Probably not.
I agree with younghoss and Osprey.
While it may be reasonable to ask for an expensive repair of something not necessary, it doesn’t mean they are going to get it. We’ve had people ask us to put up fences (not allowed in a condo unit), replace a stove with an expensive top of the line one, etc. Sure, they can ask, but it doesn’t mean it’s assured that we will do it.
It is not relevant that you had other major repairs for the rental home in the past. Your current renters have an expectation to have things fixed if they are broken through no fault of theirs. Also not having a “guy” you trust to do the repair is no excuse either, plenty of competent handy people out there to do the job.
Make the repairs and sell the house if you do not like being a landlord. Just because something is not necessary to make a home legally habitable does not mean you should not fix it. Its a cloth cover for a pergola, it probably a $500 expense max.
^^That’s pretty rude. Not everything is required to be kept in pristine condition. Often things are destroyed or worn down because of the tenant’s use and lack of care. If I had an item that was a “nice to have” item that was in a unit, unless it is in the contract, I am not required to make sure that item is there and in perfect shape for infinity. We left a desk in a unit because the tenant said he liked it and wanted it to stay, however if that desk had gotten beat up or unusable, we were not going to buy him a new desk. We let him take it when he left, because we didn’t want it.
We had a tenant who cleaned the carpet, and the carpet cleaning company ripped a hole in the carpet. They wanted us to replace the carpet in that area (which was new before they moved in, however, it was inexpensive carpet). They offered to install it for free, and we offered to pay the $400 for the carpet, but we certainly weren’t obliged to. We wanted them to remain. An expensive repair for an unnecessary item is a completely different issue. When you start asking for costly things, the landlord might agree…but consequently raise the rent.
To add, as a tenant, if I wanted an item like these tenants do, I would probably offer to pay for it, or at least half of it. As tenants, we have never asked for anything from landlords. We have always fixed things ourselves, because we were capable of it. As landlords, we have had people ask us to come over and change a standard light bulb for them. So now, in the contract we specify that they need to change their own light bulbs, and plunge their own toilets, because some people think they don’t have to take care of anything.
It doesn’t matter that you had other unexpected repairs. A replacement canopy costs about $100 + labor. Do the right thing and replace the canopy.
I don’t think you need to replace the cloth. It was nice but it isn’t something that makes the house habitable. It’s not in the lease. If it is so inexpensive to replace they can pay for it themselves. They aren’t going to move over it. If you want you could meet them in the middle and split it with the understanding that they need to install it or find someone to do it.
Nobody wants to live in a place with a tattered and torn canopy. Canopies wear out through no fault of the tenant. If the place was rented with a canopied covering and it wears out and becomes torn, I would expect the landlord to replace it. If you prefer to replace it with something other than another canvas top, that is an option as well, however, I think canvas looks much nicer than the plastic panels.
I agree that it shouldn’t be a huge expense.
In case I was unclear, it was a different repair of $10k that emptied the bank account, I currently have no idea how much to replace the cloth, but I cannot imagine it would be more than $500-1000, IF I can find someone to do it! I’ve been handling this place for about ten years and it was great after the 2008 bust, great guys available, but with the expensive repair last year, wow, amazing how few people were interested in making the money and the waits were ridiculous, 6-12 months was mostly what I heard.
Honestly, from my not sun phobic perspective, the sun cloth is an extraneous feature, there is still a nice patio cover to allow filtered sun, of course the family member who’s home this was is a fair skinned sun phobic redhead. There is nothing in the lease about it, but they do want/like it. It is not their fault it tore, it’s just old. But definitely had my turnover guy noticed it, we would have removed it. I would be fine with them putting it in for themselves, but they are asking me to do it. I only know about the initial plastic panel thoughts as the contractor shared that info, the tenants never mentioned it.
And in answer to an above comment, unless they buy the house, they won’t be there longer than I will be managing it.
No, it won’t add any value at resale, it’s merely a pleasant feature
The house is in the foothills, not central valley, a bit of snow some winters, 80-90s summer, maybe 100s now & again, lovely spring and fall.
They are nice tenants, I am a nice landlord, but yah, the large repair has me feeling less generous. This is not something they are entitled to in their lease, it is a matter of how generous I can/should be & honestly, for me, a matter of the hassle factor, this last 18 months of stuff at this house has been a real PITA. Finding a guy to do it will be the worst part. I know thaat I am too close to it, so wanted to hear thoughts of other landlords and tenants, as to how reasonable the request is.
So the patio has a pergola structure over it? Adding cloth or even plastic over may not be a good decision if the area gets snow in the winter. I wonder if that would be even to code.
Yes patio goes half the width of the house and has a wooden flat patio cover, kind of like the ones on this link with the wood-gap-wood-gap style
http://www.3dbenchmarkbuilders.com/sacramento-patio-cover-gallery.html
Last year, I bought two clearance shade cloths on the Ace hardware website and had a handyman install them one afternoon on our deck covers. One area is 10x10 and the other 16x16. The handyman used 1" screws and small washers to keep the fabric from pulling over the screw. Screws spaced every foot or so. He overlapped and folded the fabric where the covers meet. Perfect and super cheap protection from the Texas heat.
I just checked – the 10x10 is $26.99 now.
If it’s affordable, and you can find someone to do the work…fine. It would be nice.
But I have to ask…do people really sit outside when it’s in the 90’s there? They sure don’t here! Not even in the shade.
Thumper, when there is no humidity 90 is a whole lot different than 90 when there is humidity. My mother loves loves loves her electric awning and sits outside when it is 100.
And there is always the option of giving tenants the “go ahead” to look into cloth and installation costs, with the understanding that they can then report their findings to you, AND THEN you will decide if you wish to proceed or not.
I agree with Doschicos about no one wanting to live with a torn canopy, so one obvious remedy is to remove the canopy. The idea of replacing items with normal wear is a 2-way street. A tenant doesn’t have to pay for re-painting if it’s due to his normal wear. Nor for a new carpet if it is worn from the tenants’ normal wear.
A LL usually doesn’t have to replace decorative items not specifically provided for in a lease that have normal wear. Or does DOSchicos feel that a tenant must replace items they have worn out through normal wear? Do the costs of replacing items that have normal wear only fall on the LL?
The canopy may be torn through no fault of the tenant; but it’s no fault of the LL either.
The LL may choose to do so as a matter of good policy, but let’s dont confuse good policy with legal requirements…
Yes, I’d consider paying for it if they would deal with buying it and getting it installed. Kind of weird that they didn’t offer to take care of that. Of course, they’d have to give me the cost estimate first.
In that summer weather - and for good tenants paying market value - I’d fix the darned thing. Let them have use of the patio in the hottest weather.
This falls between decorative/but I (as manager) don’t mind sun -and- an aspect of usability. If you want a lower cost, don’t have the tenants seek quotes.