<p>A thread on another section of CC got me thinking about this. Does being in the school of music make a very large university feel smaller? My son has narrowed his search, and while he would prefer a smaller school (and I think it would be a better fit), he does have a couple of large state universities on the list, specifically IU and UIUC. The size and culture of these schools does not really suit him, as he is not interested in sports or the greek system, and is much more an intellectual, introverted sort. His first choice school is NU since they offer a dual degree program, and while NU is much better located for us, Rice sounds like the type of school I would choose for him based strictly on personality. Any insight would be appreciated!</p>
<p>Northwestern & Indiana are amazing institutions which offer a variety of social & intellectual options. Rice is predominately science/pre-med oriented & in hot, humid Houston. Really need more info., but that’s my off-the-cuff reaction.</p>
<p>P.S. Being in a school of music does make a school feel smaller. Have you considered Oberlin ?</p>
<p>P.P.S. Also, what about Rice University suggests “introverted & intellectual” ?</p>
<p>Being from Texas, both of my kids tell me that Rice is “where the nerds go.” But the music school is fantastic. D’s best friend is a junior voice major and loving it. But, every other kid we know who attends there is “top of the class” science and engineering type.</p>
<p>More info…DS is kind of a nerd. University of Chicago is a top choice school if he doesn’t get into a top music program for trombone performance, in case that gives you an idea of the type. I like the sound of Rice, based on size and the residential college system. It sounds similar to U of C, but with a top music school. Ideally he is looking at a dual degree program with a a second degree in science-probably looking at med school in the future. I know that is nto generally possible at Rice, but he would be able to take his pre-med requirements. </p>
<p>His thought process is that if he is not good enough to get into one of the top schools for his instrument, he is probably not destined to have a career as trombonist in a top symphony orchestra., so he is not really applying to any less selective music schools. Oberlin is on the list of possibilites, but it has 2 strikes against it. The trombone professor is retiring and they do not have a replacement, although they hope to do so prior to May 1. That might not have been so bad, but then a former classmate told him Oberlin has NO single sex bathrooms. I have to say, I would not have guessed that woudl be a deciding factor! 
Any info on the bathroom situation there woudl alos be appreciated!</p>
<p>“DS” = “daughter’s son?”</p>
<p>“I like the sound of Rice.” Does this mean that you haven’t visited Rice ?</p>
<p>Hi! My S is in his sophomore year at UM working towards dual degrees in Cello performance and Math. The SOM is definitely like a smaller home within the larger campus. Having all the music students running into each other in their ensembles and music theory and music history classes helped my S to make friends quickly with people who had similar interests. Also, the 1st year most of the music students are in the same dorm on north campus, though there are also lots of other students there too. All that helped him to feel comfortable quickly and yet he has also been able to take advantage of all that a large campus has to offer and he has made friends outside of music as well. I have talked to friends whose kids are students at UM and not in music and some of them have had trouble finding their niche at such a large school so being in the SOM has definitely been a blessing for my S.</p>
<p>Axelrod,</p>
<p>DS is generally dear son, but sometimes that D is something else! We have not visited Rice. He is applying there. and we will go down for an onsite audition, since they do not prescreen for tombone. That will give him the opportunity to get a feel for the place. That is true for many of the schools he is applying to, as we could not afford the time and money for mutipve visits to each campus.</p>
<p>Cellomom,</p>
<p>Thanks for the input! I was hoping that was the case… It appears that at IU many of the music students live in the same “neighborhood” on campus. Most students think it is the dull part, but I suspect it might suit my son much better that the more rowdy areas!</p>
<p>Headoflife - yes, indeed a School of Music can “shrink” a large university. And there are a number of reasons not to dismiss larger programs/schools, despite my own earlier misgivings about this notion. </p>
<p>(Eg. IU is a no-brainer for your son’s instrument, I would think, as is UNT. In addition, I’d be inclined to want to see him apply at some other major programs with a high degree of rigor to have a sufficient number of auditions to truly test that talent theory…eg. UMich, USC/Thornton, Miami/Frost, Rochester/Eastman, McGill – etc.)</p>
<p>My son was in love with the University of Chicago, but really wanted to pursue music + technology/comp so found himself instead applying to larger U’s with robust schools of music where there were sufficient numbers to have the variety of coursework/degree he desired. (Chicago matriculates a lot of students from his hs, but as you know, has no SOM.)</p>
<p>He ended up at his first SOM choice, which was University of Michigan. Due to his academic strength/background, he also was able to net a large merit scholarship and had the option to pursue a dual degree (which he did later switch out of.)</p>
<p>He came from a small G/T school with a graduating class of 85 and a very interdisciplinary approach to learning. His experience of Michigan, even though it is huge, with frats, football and all that “big school” jazz, is that the school of music IS in fact pretty intimate and that the resulting variety of social and academic opportunities at such an otherwise large school is actually great for him. He absolutely loves it there. I mean, this is his senior year, and he STILL LOVES IT there ;)</p>
<p>So while you might think a “Chicago-style” kid might not be happy in a big 10 setting, he would argue to think again ;)</p>
<p>His friend from the same G/T program, however, went to NU. Socially, it was actually not a fit for a variety of reasons. (I actually think Chicago might have been a better fit for this kid, but again, he was geared toward a music program that Chicago did not have.)</p>
<p>I’ve never been to Rice, but do know a prof there from work in another industry in which said prof participates. My “sense” from lengthy discussions with him (at one point he was making a case for McSon’s fit for his school…) is that it is a great fit for gifted kids highly interested in innovative STEM. </p>
<p>If you’re in a position to do so, you might want to do some touring and encourage your son to cast a slightly wider net. You will increase his odds of not only finding the true right fit, but of getting a package that makes the cost of attendance manageable. You may be surprised if he actually visits some of these programs and sits in on classes what his preference actually turn out to be.</p>
<p>That is one thing my son did that was important – not only visited the universities, but got permission to sit in on regular studio classes. It made a real difference for him.</p>
<p>kmcmom,</p>
<p>He is actually casting a wider net than I have mentioned so far. The list includes IU, NU, Eastman/Rochester, Curtis, Colburn, Julliard, Rice and UIUC for musc. He knows the prof at UIUC and I am pretty sure he will get in there. He has received his academic admit to IU, but has nto auditioned at any schools yet. He is also applying at UofC, WUSTL, Case Western, and possibly Tufts for a more academic program. I know a couple of those have affiliations with conservatories, so it is possible he would look at that program option too. He is really focusing on a top level classical program, but he has the grades/stats to apply to any school. I am not sure what he would do if the choice was UIUC for music and UofC for bio!</p>
<p>My son attends a fairly small school of music at a large university. This semester all of his classes except for one are at the school of music building, so it is almost like attending a very small college.</p>
<p>Also some large schools may have “living and learning” communities, where students are grouped by interest or major. Last year my son stayed in a dorm that was designated just for first year music students. It could made a 30,000 student university feel like a 92 student university.</p>
<p>He ended up seeking out friendships with people outside of the school of music, seemed that he fit in better with students other than music majors.</p>
<p>Oberlin is undertaking a search for the new trombone faculty. Application deadline is December 15th. The job posting is on the Oberlin website. As far as bathrooms go, students vote as to how the bathrooms are designated. There will always be at least one bathroom in the dorm that is reserved for single sex.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the feedback! It alleviat4es some of my concerns about him at a larger school. Thank you also for the info on Oberlin! I knew about the search, but the bathroom info helps! Maybe I can get him to put it back on the list, and remind him he will not be forced to make a decision until the new faculty is in place, and if they don;t have someone chosen, he can simply decide not to attend there.</p>
<p>We recently visited Rice and loved it. Like you, I really liked the residential college system. The frustrating part there is that one applies directly to the school of music, and if not accepted into the SOM, you can’t go to Rice. This is disappointing to my ds because, like yours, he is academically strong and has other interests. It would be nice if one were accepted to the university first and THEN either accepted to the school of music or not, but it doesn’t work that way there. My son is also enamored with U of C - the recruiter who came to his school must have been amazing, as several kids are keen on it now. I think Northwestern sounds like a great fit for your son. A poster on here said it was the most double degree friendly of the schools he looked at. I am trying to get my ds to look at NU.</p>
<p>NU is a wonderful school and it has a true 5 year double degree option. You apply to both schools, music and the college that houses your other degree. Both applications are considered, and you receive 2 admissions decisions. It is possible to be admitted to NU for your more academic degree but not get into Jacobs, and vice versa. While Jacobs does consider academic standards, they are less rigorous than the other colleges, and obviously there is the issue of the audition! We also attended an info session and were told it is possible to obtain a second major without doing a double degree, and still graduate in 4 years… Because NU is on the quarter system, there is an opportunity to take more classes. NU and U of C are both excellent schools but the vibe is very different. I wish NU was a bit more like U of C in that regard, but I suspect my son would find his people there, and it fits in so many ways. </p>
<p>I do wish Rice allowed the type of application NU does. I don’t know if S would go all the way to TX for a non-music program, but it would be nice to be able to explore the option.</p>
<p>How about a large small school? St. Olaf in MN would meet his criteria very well. The music program is really well respected and a big part of campus life. And the school has an excellent reputation for preparing students for medical school.</p>
<p>@headoflife- a word about the affiliation between Case Western and CIM, if I may? If he admits through Case, he will not have access to the teachers at the conservatory nor their classes. But, if he auditions and admits through CIM, he has access to Case’s classes and could pursue a dual degree if he was so inclined (and had the time to do so!).</p>
<p>This is a good thread! I have a few questions though, sorry if you covered them and I missed the answers elsewhere…</p>
<h1>1 - Is your son a senior? If so, I am sure he knows that many of the schools you mentioned don’t give an audition date until you complete the application and it seems like most schools rely on about five weekends in January and February for the majority of their audition dates. My daughter has applied to 8 schools (seven requiring auditions) and has completed one audition and we spent more time scheduling the other auditions BY A LONG SHOT than she spent in the room with the panel :D</h1>
<h1>2 - That said, her boyfriend did all of this last minute last year, made us all crazy, stressed out the entire population of people who knew him… and still got into a great school and the perfect program for him. Of course, he only applied to three schools since he delayed getting things done until the 12th hour at every opportunity. So it is doable - of course D & her BF are both bassists, so no prescreenings were needed. Only downside (other than my extra grey hairs from helping him) was he auditioned too late for talent money at most schools and is taking out more in loans than he had planned on for this first year. Luckily the school he is at reevaluates musicians for talent money each year so he can only go up from here!</h1>
<h1>3 - Eastman/Rochester - We live near there and have visited a few times. My D decided not to apply there for a few reasons, despite being asked to by a professor there. If you go to Eastman, you live in one building, right near the school, with all Eastman students. No instruments are allowed in the dorms at all. You are about a 20 minute bus ride from U of R, so you really have no interaction with the UofR community. If you apply to both schools, you can get merit aid and talent aid, but you have to choose one aid package based on whether you live in the Eastman dorm or the UofR dorms. There is also no stacking of Merit aid with Talent money at Eastman/UofR. This is all stuff they tell you on a visit, but if you aren’t going until an audition, I thought I’d list it here.</h1>
<p>And if you can make a visit outside the parameters of the audition to any school, by all means, do it. It can be costly and certainly time consuming, but we just had a situation where based on our second visit to a well known school (first was a “dog and pony show” day, this visit was just organized by my daughter and the professors) convinced her to NOT audition into the bass studio and to withdraw her application for admission. She might not have picked up on how she felt she would fit into the environment so clearly during the fast paced audition day schedule (and since she liked the professors, she would have judged based on that alone) and that could have been a costly and unhappy situation for her if she hadn’t visited again.</p>
<p>Mezzo,</p>
<p>Thank you for the info on Case/CIM. It is pretty low on his last, as they are a great conservatory, but not specifically tops in his instrument. I will let him know how this program works, and see if I can convince him to apply!</p>
<p>alexmarie,</p>
<p>DS is a senior, and I can only hope we both survive through graduation! Thank you for your insight into the process, and for the info on Eastman/UofR specifically. It is near the top of his list! While I would love to schedule a pre-audition visit to all the scools on the list, it simply isn’s going to happen. I think we will pay soe post-acceptance visits though, and not necessarily on a scheduled accepted student day!</p>
<p>Since DS is a trombone player, I thought we would get out of the prescreening, but a couple of the schools want them,so he is presently working on that. While it is a hassle, and one I had not planned for, I now wish that since he si doing one, all the programs used them! Then I wouln’t have to plan for so much travel in the worst part of winter! I am torn between encouraging him to broaden his list, because in an audition based program acceptance is always up in the air, and wanting him to cut schools because the audition process is so expensive and time consuming! I believe he has 7 schools on his list for music now-3 or 4 are drive to distance and the others are a flight. We will see the fall out after the submission of the prescreening video to the 32 schools that want it.</p>
<p>Thanks everybody for the feedback! Keep it coming!</p>
<p>Well, just remember, whenever you feel bad because you have to schedule a flight…</p>
<p>At least your kid didn’t take up the bass! Those bad boys really, really don’t fly so well in this post-9/11 world.</p>
<p>Me and my minivan are driving her and her basses to three different auditions in one month - and they are all 13-15 HOURS away from home.</p>
<p>If you really, really want to feel better…</p>
<p>her second auditioning instrument is… tuba.</p>
<p>xD</p>
<p>I knew we got off easy when my son took up the violin rather than the cello. Good luck to everyone on their auditions and prescreens!</p>