Large schools for the talented late bloomer/lazy underachiever

MomLive · June 14, 2010, 8:25pm

Don’t know if this will help but my son had a 3.2 UW/ 3.8WA, 31 ACT, NMSF, several national awards, 7 AP classes. He attended a very rigorous, private college prep school - at least 15 out of the 70 students in his class got into an Ivy or Top 20. Great teacher recs.

He was denied at UNC-CH, waited-listed at Michigan. He did get into the South Carolina honors college - honors college students get preferential admittance into the International Business program (which is ranked #1 or #2 in the country), if you son is interested in IB. He also got into UGA, Clemson, Emory’s Oxford College and a few small LACs. Denied at a few other Top 10/20 schools.

Having just gone through this, my experience was (and this was true for all of his classmates in the high test score/lower GPA boat) the colleges look at GPA, first and foremost. A high score on a 4 hour test is a data point but not the most compelling one.

If you have access to Naviance, it is helpful to see if other kids within your son’s GPA/Test Score range were accepted. For the schools my son was not accepted, he was an outlier with his high test score and not so high GPA.

scansmom · June 14, 2010, 11:11pm

I was just looking at some of the college lists on the InsideCollege website; here’s a list of “slacker colleges”:

<ol>
<li>Pennsylvania State University – University Park (University Park, PA) </li>
<li>University of Florida (Gainesville, FL) </li>
<li>Virginia Tech (Blacksburg, VA) </li>
<li>University of Oklahoma (Norman, OK) </li>
<li>Auburn University (Auburn, AL) </li>
<li>University of Alabama (Tuscaloosa, AL) </li>
<li>Louisiana State University – Baton Rouge (Baton Rouge, LA) </li>
<li>University of Tennessee (Knoxville, TN) </li>
<li>Clemson University (Clemson, SC) </li>
<li>Michigan State University (East Lansing, MI) </li>
</ol>

and here is a link to their much longer list of colleges for late bloomers:

2collegewego · June 14, 2010, 11:45pm

Michigan to Indiana, with schools like Texas, Virginia, Washington (the University of, not WUSL), Maryland, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Illinois, Penn State

I think Texas, North Carolina, Michigan and UVA are all reaches. I think Wisconsin, Washington and Illinois are matches. I think he has a very good shot at Maryland and Penn State and will likely see merit $ from Indiana. I also agree with suggestions to add Univ of Arizona and Alabama to the mix.

pierre0913 · June 15, 2010, 12:17am

what? Clemson is a slacker school? I worked my butt off this year and still barely got above a 3.0!! haha

But anyways, Clemson>South Carolina, definitely give it a shot!

MomLive · June 15, 2010, 8:37am

Clemson is pretty hard to get into these days with less than 3.0 GPA. Clemson>South Carolina, though, is highly debatable. I have degrees from both schools. Really depends on your major. In general, Clemson is better known for it’s ‘technical’ programs - engineering, architect, landscaping, nursing, etc., whereas SC has some better liberal arts, business and science programs as well as a law school and medical school. Also, USC is the only university in South Carolina classified as a research institution of “very high research activity” by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. It’s only one of 62 universities in the country with this designation.

South Carolina’s Honors College is nationally recognized and was the basis for many other honors colleges around the country.

On the other hand, Clemson does have a better football program - which is a big draw in this state.

JMHO :)

pierre0913 · June 15, 2010, 8:54am

^haha I GO to Clemson, I was talking about working really hard but barely getting above a 3.0 after my freshman year.

But yeah, everything you said is pretty right except the Calhoun Honors College is pretty good too.

MiamiDAP · June 15, 2010, 9:12am

I do not know any place where college students can slack off and have decent grades. It does not work at college. My D. has to work extremely hard to keep her GPA high. She is at state school, not elite, not Ivy. She also graduated #1 in her HS class, so she had sufficient background for any college.

sax · June 15, 2010, 10:10am

Penn State weighs GPA as 2/3 of their admission decision. He MIGHT be able to get in if he applies early. No promises though. Smeal is an excellent business school and PSU alumni are truely worldwide and helpful. He wlll have to have the grades to get into and stay in Smeal.

PSU admits lots of kids (7000-8000 freshman class) but many of them (your slackers) have a hard time graduating

just saw tonerangers post which has great advice on PSU

mom2collegekids · June 15, 2010, 10:55am

*I was just looking at some of the college lists on the InsideCollege website; here’s a list of “slacker colleges”:

<ol>
<li>Pennsylvania State University – University Park (University Park, PA)</li>
<li>University of Florida (Gainesville, FL)</li>
<li>Virginia Tech (Blacksburg, VA)</li>
<li>University of Oklahoma (Norman, OK)</li>
<li>Auburn University (Auburn, AL)</li>
<li>University of Alabama (Tuscaloosa, AL)</li>
<li>Louisiana State University – Baton Rouge (Baton Rouge, LA)</li>
<li>University of Tennessee (Knoxville, TN)</li>
<li>Clemson University (Clemson, SC)</li>
<li>Michigan State University (East Lansing, MI) *</li>
</ol>

All of this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, large publics often have to accept a wide range of students because their primary mission is to educate their state’s students. That is one reason why state schools are often much larger than privates.

**However, that does NOT mean that “slacker kids” are found distributed amongst all the majors. **

You’re not going to find “slacker kids” in majors such as… chem, bio, physics, math, engineering, etc. You might find slackers majoring in the so-called lighter majors (I won’t name them because I’ll get flamed…but most know which ones I’m referring to.)

So, my point is that a kid with the OPs stats could get into many of those schools, but if he chooses a tough major, his slacking days better be over or he’s out.

(And, yes, Clemson is getting more difficult to get accepted to. When we toured in 2006, our student campus tour guide (a senior) confessed that she would not likely get accepted if she were applying again. )

momofthreeboys · June 15, 2010, 12:56pm

I think it’s important, too, to find out how college look at the GPAs also. More ofteon than not on these forums people are citing weighted GPAs so the OP states the 3.1 is a 3.6 weighted. To discriminate the information the OP needs to understand the GPA context (weighted or unweighted) that the various universities will use.

jazzymom · June 15, 2010, 1:26pm

I agree it’s hard to predict outcomes with such a mismatched set of stats. ACT 35 will impress many admissions committees, but many do not weight GPA so he is stuck with the unweighted GPA (though they do look at level of rigor).

The GPA would make UMichigan’s Ross business college a reach, but I have been told that the whole application is considered and that essays are *extremely * important. Nothing at all wrong with applying to some obvious reaches.

Just make sure there are likely/safeties on the list that he would be happy, or at least not mind, attending… so don’t just tack them on the list as an afterthought. Have him do a serious search on the match and safeties…look through websites, consider what’s being offered in honors programs and visit the ones that he likes.

Here’s one other suggestion: Arizona State University. He can be in the Barrett Honors College (lots of honors perks and he’d probably get significant merit aid) and also the business school if I understand correctly.

[Business</a> Honors - Undergraduate - W. P. Carey School of Business](<a href=“http://wpcarey.asu.edu/undergraduate/business-degrees/business-honors.cfm]Business”>http://wpcarey.asu.edu/undergraduate/business-degrees/business-honors.cfm)

boiledegg · June 15, 2010, 1:27pm

What about the U of Oregon? Minimum GPA of 3.0, great business school (and even sports business/marketing) and big time sports. The Nike connection makes it attractive for people who are sports/business oriented. Good luck to your son- I am sure he will blossom in college.

pierre0913 · June 15, 2010, 2:11pm

At large public universities, what they’ll do is look at just GPA, test scores and class rank, plug them into a formula and if you fit what their looking for, you get in.

MiamiDAP · June 15, 2010, 2:19pm

AT D’s state school, one cannot get into business school with GPA lower 3.5. They have to take freshman year undeclared and have high college GPA to get accepted to business school. What is the point to go to college with the goal of slacking off anyway? Many places of employment ask about college GPA. I was asked my GPA after having almost 30 years of experience in a field. I have MBA degree.

sacchi · June 15, 2010, 4:13pm

It would definitely be a reach, but what about EA for Notre Dame?

mom2collegekids · June 15, 2010, 4:19pm

Ok…

Schools that don’t use a simple GPA and test score formula might reject him for fear that he’s a student who won’t do the assignments that are asked of him.

However, at schools that use a simple formula for admission, he’ll be admitted.

And…what area of business is he interested? Accounting? finance? Econ? what???

You haven’t indicated whether you’ll pay for wherever he gets accepted. Do you have a budget or is money no object?

You’re looking at a lot of OOS publics. They’ll either expect you to pay full-freight ($35k - 50k per year) or he’ll need to apply to some OOS publics that will give him money for his stats.

dadtimesthree · June 15, 2010, 5:05pm

I think I need to clarify some things a little:

<ol>
<li>He’s not a “slacker” who doesn’t do or turn in assignments. He has, in the past, not studied as hard for tests, or punished himself as hard on papers as others in his advanced curricula, but he has never been a kid who did not turn in what was asked of him, and on what he likes (as, for example, his academically oriented ECs, including DECA and Congressional Debate), he works very hard and has done extremely well. This year, he has worked much harder and his grades are much better. I’m not at all worried that he’ll get to college and just blow things off.</li>
<li>Everyone has a budget, and the comparison of cost to value received will certainly factor into any decision. So too, though, does fit and benefit towards his intended future in either law school or graduate business school. We’re not simply looking at schools where he can get scholarships, but we also want to know about them, and compare them to those where he might pay full freight.</li>
</ol>

mythmom · June 15, 2010, 5:19pm

For my kid I’d look at Tulane and UVM.

fallenchemist · June 15, 2010, 7:29pm

There is no way he would get into ND, I don’t think. Tulane and UVM do not fit the stated criteria of large schools and big time sports.

I concur with the suggestions of looking at ASU Barrett Honors College, Alabama, and Indiana (who hopefully will get back on track in sports).

Olymom · June 15, 2010, 7:39pm

University of Washington would be a real reach. But our darling high SAT, so-so GPA kid is headed to the charming Western Washington University at Bellingham. DH saw the beautiful campus, the ocean nearby, the Mt Baker ski area ditto and said “what’s not to like?” It is 13,000 students with well regarded teaching staff – not big name but sure a nice fit for our guy.

S also looked at Lewis and Clark in Portland (very nice) and Williamette in Salem OR. A friend advised us to look at Pacific College in Oregon because of its cozy atmosphere and high female ratio (he thought HE would want to be a guy student there).

It is bizarre how high scoring, average GPA males are low balled. Many males don’t really come into their abilities until 19, 20 or older. Many are “honest” and won’t do stupid homework or comply with stupid mandates in high school. They do much better in the richer, more options world of college. The challenge, then, is to find a deep, rich pond that seems to have a shallow water entry point.

Large schools for the talented late bloomer/lazy underachiever

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