<p>Agree with you about late-blooming males. My S was exactly like that.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, your suggestions don’t meet the big-time sports criteria, but otherwise they would be wonderful choices.</p>
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<p>I’ve taught at range of schools- Ivy, top 10, state- and every place I’ve met brilliant students that really did not need to work at it. Some people are truly blessed with a genuine high IQ and academic wherewithall that lets them sail through undergrad. It just comes very, very easy to them.</p>
<p>It might also be that your son will find university easier than his highschool.</p>
<p>On the west coast I concur with U of Oregon and would also suggest looking at USC. Both are members of the Pac 10 (or whatever it is this week) and have strong undergraduate business programs. The Ducks went to the Rose Bowl last year!</p>
<p>I would be really surprised if he got into USC with that GPA. Nothing to lose, just saying. Oregon a good choice though.</p>
<p>*I think I need to clarify some things a little:</p>
<ol>
<li>He’s not a “slacker” who doesn’t do or turn in assignments. He has, in the past, not studied as hard for tests, or punished himself as hard on papers as others in his advanced curricula, but he has never been a kid who did not turn in what was asked of him, and on what he likes (as, for example, his academically oriented ECs, including DECA and Congressional Debate), he works very hard and has done extremely well. This year, he has worked much harder and his grades are much better. I’m not at all worried that he’ll get to college and just blow things off. *</li>
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<p>I didn’t mean to suggest that I thought your son didn’t do his assignments. I was only suggesting that a college might think that when they see his UW GPA vs his ACT score. A lot of colleges are so used to seeing super GPAs with that ACT score, so I hope you can understand that a college might jump to the wrong conclusion. 
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<p>I totally understand your latest post. Yes, many boys “come into their own” in college. </p>
<ol>
<li>Everyone has a budget, and the comparison of cost to value received will certainly factor into any decision. So too, though, does fit and benefit towards his intended future in either law school or graduate business school. We’re not simply looking at schools where he can get scholarships, but we also want to know about them, and compare them to those where he might pay full freight. *</li>
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<p>Totally understand! If he gets into a school that you feel is worth it, you’re fine with paying. :)</p>
<p>I concur with the suggestions of looking at ASU Barrett Honors College, Alabama, and Indiana (who hopefully will get back on track in sports).</p>
<p>I agree. ASU’s Barretts Honors College is very selective, but your son would still have a good chance. Alabama has 4 different honors programs - all unique and very interesting.</p>
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<p>I agree. While there’s always a long shot, we had several students this year with much higher GPAs (in IB program) and equivalent SATs not get in. ND is pretty competitive.</p>
<p>Univ. of Georgia was a popular place for the higher achieving students at my son’s school to apply. It’s definitely a big sports school with a pretty good national reputation. Son got in with similar stats. They claim it is easier to get in from out of state. If I remember correctly it was about $35k for OOS. They also have a stats only, no essay EA application (think that’s why it was popular at our school). Son got deferred during the EA process (I truly believe they rank ordered by stats the kids that apply from son’s school and took the top third) but he got in RD.</p>
<p>dadtimesthree,
I am sorry to point out again which has been pointed many times here. Your statement that your S. is working hard up to his potential is not supported by facts. Fact is: it is no brainer that person with ACT=35 should have GPA=4.0uw at ANY most rigorous school in the USA. All it takes is to complete all homework assigments as good as it is possible for one who is capable of ACT=35. This is not just my thinking (I will explain later why I think so), it will be thinking of any admission office at any college, selective or not. OK, my personal reason to think so is my own D. When she was 5 in kindergarden and got her very first tiny assignment, I told her that if she wants to be a good students in a future and receive good grades (no grades in kindergarden yet), all she needs to do is to complete her homework the best she could and she cannot go to swim practice until it is done. I have never repeated this. She just followed that rule, never had a single “B” in her life (college senior) and ended up graduating #1 from small private school with rigorous program that sends 100% of graduates to 4 year colleges. Her ACT was 33 (took once), she prepared for it, it was enough to be accepted to very selective program (10 spots) at state school. </p>
<p>I have no doubt that anybody, including kids who are not near as talented as OP’s S, could achieve all “A” at any HS in the USA. Keep in mind that HS programs in the USA are of much lower academic levels than in most other countries, including underdeveloped countries in Africa. I heard it numerous times from all kind of immigrants who open their own schools in the US and/or contemplating sending thier children for better K-12 education back home.</p>
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<p>I beg to differ.</p>
<p>I stand in awe of the (few) students who are capable of achieving a perfect GPA at our local high school. It is EXTREMELY difficult to achieve a straight 4.0 uw and is certainly a matter of more than “just doing your homework.”</p>
<p>I have to agree with fendrock. MiamiDAP vastly oversimplifies the situation, and is rudely presumptuous about someone he doesn’t know at all. Besides,
Maybe I am missing it, but in the three posts dadtimesthree has had on this thread he never once said his son had worked up to his potential. He said he was now working hard and doing much better, hence the “late bloomer” tag. It would really help to get your facts straight before dumping on someone you don’t even know with statements that are fairly ridiculous in any case. My D got 2330 SAT, Presidential Scholar finalist, and all sorts of other awards, and she “only” had a 3.8 something unweighted. She has always been extremely diligent in her work and priorities, but obviously in your opinion she is just an abject failure, lol. Getting a 4.0, especially with a lot of AP courses, is just not nearly as routine as you make it sound. Really dumb thing to say, IMO.</p>
<p>
Great, another America basher. It couldn’t be that some (certainly not all, most immigrants send their kids to public schools) of these people send their kids to schools like you describe for cultural reasons. That would be too easy of an explanation. It is amazing that with such a poor educational system we lead the world in research, Nobel Prizes, technological innovation, and so many other areas. Yep, that sure is a crappy system we have. Does it have glaring probelms in certain areas? Of course. But let’s not paint the whole system and all schools with the same brush. It just ruins any legitimate argument you have.</p>
<p>If we do not improve k-12 here, we are in trouble. Many foreign proffessionals are leaving USA, going back, we will need replacements. Many departments that involve technology are facing very old work force. People around me were much younger when I started working, we all got very old, some approaching close to 70. I have taken Computer class later in my proffessional life, prof. has mentioned that academic quality of kids coming to his class from HS went down considerably. At the end we had 3 people n our class (summer session), I was assigned by prof. to assist one, prof took care of another. He just needed to get some work out of them to give them some reasonable grades. It was very sad. If we do not face up to that, we are in trouble. </p>
<p>It does not take anything but hard work to get straingt 'A’s, including the most regorous programs and most rigorous programs at most colleges. Yes, I heard that it is hard at MIT, but other than that, hard work will always win. If you tell your kids otherwise, you set them for failure. Even in worst moments of despair, I always tell this to my D. Others have connections, special status, tons of talent… but at the end hard worker will be a winner.</p>
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That is just absurd on its face. Especially if you are taking a fair dose of math and science courses, but many others as well. It takes intelligence, the ability to think abstractly, and other factors to get straight A’s. It takes hard work also in most cases, although there are certainly people that are so smart they get straight A’s with almost no work. But I will put you in a room with a bunch of pre-meds from Wash U, Duke, Tulane, USC, and almost any other top 50 school you care to name and let you try to peddle your tripe on those who worked their asses off in Organic Chemistry and still did not get an A. You would be well advised not to make things that are clearly more complicated so absolute.</p>
<p>MiamiDap, you have written before about your hard-working, highly focused D who is at the top of her class at a large public U. She is clearly very smart and very talented and extremely hard working.</p>
<p>It would be the unusual student (there is maybe one a year) who graduates from MIT with a perfect GPA. That’s out of the thousand kids per class who are admitted, most of whom were valedictorians, have been working hard and excelling across the board for a decade or more. MIT grades Pass/Fail for the first semester because the work is so hard compared to what even exceptional HS students have been used to. MIT does not give academic honors (magna, summa, etc.) because the curriculum is so difficult (not time consuming- which it clearly is, but DIFFICULT) that making distinctions among so many distinguished graduates is an exercise in futility.</p>
<p>Many brilliant students struggle to maintain a B average at MIT.</p>
<p>Your comments reflect your own experience and that of your D. But you would change your tune very quickly if your D had chosen to enroll at Cal Tech, MIT, JHU or any one of many U’s with thousands of talented and hard working students JUST LIKE YOUR D. Your D is exceptional- but you have admitted on occasion that not every student at her U is as ambitious and capable as she. Hence- she’s at the top of her class with just hard work and natural talent.</p>
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<p>The IU scholarships are based on a combination of SAT/GPA and with a 35/3.6 he would be just under the gpa threshold: </p>
<p>[Automatic</a> Academic Scholarships: Office of Scholarships: Indiana University Bloomington](<a href=“http://www.scholarships.indiana.edu/scholarships/automatic/index.php]Automatic”>http://www.scholarships.indiana.edu/scholarships/automatic/index.php)</p>
<p>MiamiDAP- I agree with you about hard work being very important, and think that is the point you are trying to get at here.</p>
<p>But come on. You mentioned once to your kindergarten daughter that she needed good grades or she couldn’t go to swim practice, and that was enough to propel her into a lifelong career of academic perfection? Zero input after that? I think your over 2000 posts on CC sort of belies your claims of lack of involvement.</p>
<p>and fallenchemist is correct. A 35 on an ACT test is great, but the ACT test is composed of simple to moderately difficult problems. THe key is to work careful;ly under times and stresful conditions. The skill is entirely different than that of an advanced chemistry, physics, mathematics, or engineering class. And I’m suere there are analogous classes in the humanities or social sciences.</p>
<p>In a way, liberal arts and similar subjects can be harder to get A’s in. Why? Because they can be extremely subjective, much of the grading being based on essays and creative writing and things like that, depending on the subject. At least in math and science usually the answers are either right or wrong, although the problems can still be very hard.</p>
<p>Anyway, we have allowed MiamiDAP to get us off track from the OP’s thread topic, although I will stand by my not letting her ridiculous post go unanswered. But I think we have discredited her statements enough, let’s get back to the OP’s issue.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned Georgia earlier, and I have heard that there have been a number of strides taken there academically. But from what I hear, Alabama has done even more in that regard over the last few years. There are a number of choices that could challenge your son and provide a big time sports atmosphere.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that if he does very well his freshman year at a less selective school, he could possibly transfer to a more selective one, or move into the Honors program of the school he is in if he doesn’t get in right away. In particular, the Penn State honors college is of extremely high quality, besides Barrett which was already mentioned. A third is Barksdale at University of Mississippi. For all of these and any others you might consider, you would want to check and make sure transferring in is possible after freshman year.</p>
<p>I have to confess to being literally stunned by MiamiDAP’s post #47. Not only does it completely misrepresent what I said–I NEVER said that my son was working hard as he could, and specifically said he didn’t study for tests and rewrite papers to the degree of some of his classmates–but it completely misrepresents the grading system in many/most high schools/colleges in this country by taking what he/she claims to be his/her daughter’s example and nationalizing it. It is NOT the case that any really smart kid can get a 4.0 if they only “complete all homework assignments as good as possible.” It is NOT the case that high school programs in the US “are of much lower academic levels than most other countries, including underdeveloped countries in Africa”–we’ve hosted exchange students in our home, and my work puts me in contact with parents of school age children from many other countries, and sorry, no. There are things we can do to improve the educational system, and there are some really bad schools here (as there are everywhere). The global bashing of US education though, based on a single experience, is just wrong.</p>
<p>I appreciate the help that those who have participated in this thread and privately messaged me have provided. I do not appreciate my request for advice being used as a sounding board for someone who wants to bash my kid, the educational system in general, or any student who doesn’t get straight As, whether at the high school or college level, based on nothing other than a single claimed anecdotal experience.</p>
<p>Dad…can I ask this…</p>
<p>Since you’re looking into a variety of schools…some where you’d pay full-freight and some where your son may get scholarships…and you’re (smartly) trying to figure out the cost-benefit of either type of school…</p>
<p>Are you considering telling your son that the consistent efforts that he puts forth his senior year (grades, tests, essays) might influence what direction you will lean? </p>
<p>The reason I ask is this. Your son is very smart, but if he’s not wired to “super perform” over an extended period of time, then he might end up at the bottom of the heap at a top school (if accepted) where his classmates are all super-driven. His GPA at such a school could really nose-dive when his performance is compared to the cut-throat kids who might be at such schools.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids, we told him last summer where he was, and what he’d been doing to himself by his work ethic, and I have to say that the maturity shift in him over the past 12 months has been extremely gratifying. He’s always been a great kid–now, hes much more focused, mature, and goal-oriented.</p>
<p>We’re not going to condition whether to pay more on whether he works hard for 6 months. We have told him that it makes no sense to pay a lot more for a “better” school if he’s not going to work hard in college, and he’s going to have a mediocre college record.</p>
<p>I’m really confident that he’ll do very well in whatever college he attends based on what I’ve seen over the past year.</p>
<p>If it helps dad, I went through the same thing with my S, as I think I mentioned. Like yours, he seemed to finally “grow up” when it came to this area of self-discipline about the last half of his junior year of high school (like yours sounds, he was pretty mature otherwise). He ended up at a school that is perfect for him (doesn’t fit the description of what yours wants though), has done pretty well (about a 3.5-3.6) and will be taking the LSATs this fall (his senior year). Being as he got 1580 on the CR/W parts of the SAT, I am fairly optimisitc he will do well on the LSAT and he will have a shot at a good law school. Maybe not Harvard, lol, but a good one.</p>
<p>Anyway, just an encouraging anecdote from someone that has been there, like thousands of others on here, no doubt.</p>
<p>DadX3, I private messaged before, but I want to chime in here publicly. The same exact thing happened to my son in 11th grade. Was it the driver’s license, the part-time job, the prep for ACT exams, the visits to colleges? WHO KNOWS what did it? There is not one thing that makes it happen.</p>
<p>Since I don’t know how (or if) our mentoring made this leap in our son, I am wondering how much long-distance mentoring he will need next year when he is off at college. I know you know this, but lots of his friends will be taking “Senior Foods” and early dismissal and late arrival. I think senior year class selection is especially important for kids with the upward trend in grades from 9th - 11th grade. Colleges want to see you are using senior year to get ready, and I think this really applies to late bloomers.</p>
<p>BTW, have fun with your son this next year. To me, it was the best so far.</p>