Large trees - pro or con?

Parent Cafe
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<p>An issue which has been coming up with frequency in my community recently is trees. Specifically, large shade trees - oak, elm, ash, sycamore, beech, etc., which grow to forty feet or bigger. The city officially encourages the growing of, and regulates the cutting of, large trees. But large trees can be a hassle - leaves, surface roots, lifted sidewalks, dropping branches, etc. and some people would rather just cut 'em down and replace them with more “manageable” - that is, smaller - ones. One local homeowner’s association just cut down over 200 roadside shade trees and replaced them with smaller, more “decorative” trees and got in a big fight with some of the homeowners. (Apparently the board didn’t bother to tell the homeowners until after the tree cutters had started work.)</p>

<p>What do you folks think? Is the look of tree-lined, shady streets worth the hassle of dealing with the maintenance issues? Should a city prohibit a property owner from cutting down any tree he wants? How about a homeowner’s association? I’m curious about the collective wisdom of the CC’ers on this one. It’s getting to be a neighbor-against-neighbor type thing at this point, with bad blood being generated.</p>

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<p>Or…move to my neck of the “literal” woods where you have a sizeable chunk of land with LOTS and LOTS of trees on it and can do what the heck you want with the trees on your own land! The only thing in this realm we have to think about is which trees to cut down that have grown too tall as to start blocking our great view :D.</p>

3

<p>I still regret the 100+ years old copper beech trees that had to be cut down because they developed disease. We have some other large trees in our yard that will need to be trimmed down, but I would like another tall tree to provide some shade from the hot sun in the afternoon. </p>

<p>I have to say that the tall elm trees on our sidewalk are a bit of a nuisance in the fall as the leaves fall into our yard and their roots make the brick sidewalk uneven. But they are a minor nuisance, all things considered.</p>

4

<p>Obvious tactical error by the HOA. I have found big old trees (over 75 feet ash on my property) to be a PITA but they look great. I had to install gutter caps to take care of the leaf problem and took out a couple that were now too close to the house and dropping small limbs all the time which is nasty on slate tiles and cars. Also a huge fire hazard in most of California. I think encouraging gradual replacement with some guidelines is a good idea. I am not sure the city or HOA should be able to dictate what an owner does with their trees on their land. Most street trees are considered part of the public space even if you have to take care of them. Our city trims the trees but we have to maintain the grass around them.</p>

5

<p>well placed huge old trees are a treasure
There is a Giant Sequioa on teh next block that I hope is never cut down.
I have many fond memories of standing underneath it waiting with my daughter to catch her bus.</p>

<p>We have several trees on our small city lot- however, at least the ones I planted I placed carefully. I like decidious trees, and they add a lot to the neighborhood- they are valuable for shade- food and shelter for wildlife etc
My H did plant our subAlpine Fir- too close to our front path I think, but so far it is OK( it is very very slow growing)</p>

<p>Occasionaly neighbors do cause problems- one beautiful Pine tree was a source of contention up the street- I am not really sure exactly what the problem was- but it was totally removed- it was easily 50 years old ( it wasnt splitting sidewalk, but I am not sure if it was causeing water line problems)- That part of the street now looks naked- it totally changes the environment.
I cant imagine going through and cutting down 200 trees unless there was something wrong with them.
Did the homeowner assc pay for that?
I think what might have been a better way to handle it- is to do it in steps- indentify the most problematic trees/spots, remove and replant there and reevaluate in a year.
Trees can cause problems with drainage systems etc though- my sister lives on a very steep hill that becomes quite slippery with leaves in the fall</p>

<p>and since this is a college board
a link to [The</a> Trees of Reed](<a href=“Trees of Reed”>Trees of Reed)</p>

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<p>Pro. In my neighborhood, one where you can’t cut down most trees without a permit, trees add great value to your property. You can’t buy a mature oak, but a great mature palm can cost $25,000 plus! Without these beautiful trees we would just have a lot of concrete.</p>

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<p>I live in an urban area with lots of mature trees. We have been classified as a “Tree City”. Sometimes, the trees are a pain. The locust out front clogs the gutters in the fall. Our neighbors have a black walnut on the property line and it is a mess. I still would not want to cut either of these down. Do you realize how much trees help with shade and thus, cooling? With energy costs going up we should be encouraging the planting of large shade trees, not discouraging it.</p>

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<p>We have oaks, beech trees and even some (according to tree experts who loathe them) “trash” Norway maples. They drop crud, leaves, little wingy flying things, acorns, etc. all year long, cloggin the gutters and making a mess. And they supply beautiful shade, a lovely canopy which keeps the house cooler in the summer.</p>

<p>I adore trees. I don’t believe in removing beautiful old shade trees, and believe they are an important part of any city, despite their need for upkeep.</p>

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<p>Marite,</p>

<p>Copper beech is so beautiful–I love tri-color beech even more. The whole family of beeches are, to my eye, unique for trees…for nature. They are muscular, often turning and bending as if to peer around a corner; they bare a history of scars as do people: dark, wavy and vibrant. A Beech has a torso more than a trunk. I stop for each one I see. I have to look.</p>

<p>So sad to hear of your ordeal; I would have cried my eyes out.</p>

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<p>FS:</p>

<p>Thanks. I was really sad, too. Since it happened not long after we moved into our house, I felt we were somewhat responsible for their demise. We do have a beautiful Japanese maple tree whose leaves change color throughout the year.</p>

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<p>I’m a very polarized vote in favor of keeping the trees, and believe at minimum the HOA board should have taken a vote from the owners.</p>

<p>HOAs can unfortunately be nightmarish organizations; they are often unregulated and what happens to a community can often be based on the whim of who serves on the board, and within any given board, which members have greatest influence.</p>

<p>In our community, one cannot remove a tree without special permission from the county, and then, the HOA board has to approve, a process that requires the homeowner send a written request to the board; the board then reviews, interviews the neighbors for their input and permission, etc. They will almost certain not allow the removal of ANY tree, a position I tend to support in very general terms.</p>

<p>Where conflict happens is - when a homeowner is caught between two separate board positions. Example, the homeowner next door to me had a very large, old tree in his front yard; he wanted to have it removed/replaced but never started the process with the HOA board because he knew it would be very bureaucratic, and the outcome most likely undesirable, so he “never got around to it”. </p>

<p>During the 2004 hurricane season, Charlie hit the area pretty hard; early in the storm, this homeowner’s tree snapped at the base and crashed right into his home. (I heard it - horrendous sound, that.) The tree was so large, it landed across the front portion of his roof, and hung over the other side of the house by several feet. It nearly collapsed the entryway of his house, and of course destroyed the roof and the framing. </p>

<p>Just a few weeks after, Hurricanes Francis, Ivan, and some fourth hurricane I cannot remember the name of also made landfall. Massive property damage from all four hurricanes caused significant drain on resources, including insurance adjusters as you might imagine. Consequently, this homeowner had to wait weeks and weeks just for the insurance adjuster to arrive, and of course getting licensed contractors to the site was a long wait as well.</p>

<p>But the HOA board had no sympathy, and no interest in the reality of economic impact of four hurricanes arriving just weeks apart. The very same board that would not have approved the homeowner removing the tree (assumed, based on their denial of all such prior requests) engaged their lawyer, and began sending him registered letters and legal notices, threatening to sue if he did not repair his home immediately.</p>

<p>He went to the board with documentation from his insurance company etc. proving that an adjuster was promised “soon” and he would then have a check for repairs, but, meanwhile, he simply did not have the thousands of dollars liquid to repair the damage out of his own pocket, and even if he did, he was still in queue for a licensed contractor, as were millions of homeowners throughout the state.</p>

<p>This eventually resolved in that he did a patchwork repair job with the help of well meaning put unlicensed, poorly skilled friends, and finally he was able to collect from his insurance company and get it done right. My recollection is it took him 14 months. The HOA wanted it done in 30 days.</p>

<p>The real bottom line is sometimes HOA boards have entirely too much power.</p>

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<p>That is a very horrible situation-I would have had it fixed and sent them the bill- ( I realize he didnt have the money)
so these HOAs these a re a new thing to me-
are these planned communities- whole towns?
sounds like they have way more power than they should have :(</p>

<p>THis reminds me of one of our “favorite” businessmen- starbucks own Howard Schultz, when he built the driveway to his home on city park property.
Or when a Seattle federal judge cut down 120 trees in another city owned park to improve his “view”.
( he signed a legal settlement to replant the park- but has paid less than half of what was owed, his final payment was due 1 & 1/2 years ago)</p>

<p>Its easier to ask forgiveness than permission and some apparently have learned that lesson too well.</p>

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<p>Two thoughts from a person who loves big trees:</p>

<p>If you live in the desert like we do, you won’t have to worry about arguments over trees because almost everyone wants to preserve the few trees we have.</p>

<p>Tell your HOA and city maintenance departments about Rubber Sidewalks - they save trees, provide a conservation-based way to use old tires, and even make sidewalks more people friendly because they are easier on the joints: rubbersidewalks.com. I have no interest in this company but I think it’s a great idea.</p>

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<p>I love big trees but not overhanging my house with a hurricane coming… When we lived in Massachusetts and hurricane Gloria came through in Sept of '85, we had four huge oaks, each more than a hundred years old, come down around our house, each narrowly missing the house. It cost hundreds of dollars to remove them from the driveway and cut them into manageable chunks and we had firewood for four years.</p>

<p>When the winds come up around here and I start to watch the huge cedars (more than 100 feet tall) behind my house start to sway, I contemplate removing a few of them… </p>

<p>COmpromise is possible.</p>

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<p>DRJ4, thanks for the link, but, getting a HOA board to even consider, let alone approve, such a thing might be near impossible. </p>

<p>Our deed restrictions require a specific type of wood siding on our homes, and the original product is actually outlawed in Australia following it being the result of the largest ever product liability award in that country’s history, and in any case is obsolete – no one makes it any more. We are permitted to use Hardie paneling; anyway, for years and years, we have been trying to convince the board to amend the deed restrictions to permit other products, to no avail. One homeowner has been tangled up in a lawsuit for over two years because he decided to ignore the rules and use a different product. </p>

<p>Emeraldkity, someone more articulate can explain HOAs, but, bottom line, good ones keep a community clean and relatively crime-free, preserve if not directly contribute to acceleration of property values, and make it possible for homeowners to contract for services through an economy of scale. Example, $125/month gets me all the water I feel like using, cable television and wireless internet, landscaping, swimming pool and related maintenance and insurance, garbage collection, and a few other things. </p>

<p>The downside is that an HOA board can overreach, assume authority it does not have or should not have (such as the one in Kluge’s post); they can also be very discriminatory with application of the deed restrictions to specific residents - example, when I served on the board for my community - horrible experience and I will never do it again - we would get requests from homeowners for permission to install things like swing sets, basketball hoops, etc. Two homeowners could be asking to install swing sets, and it was (and is) the policy of our board to clear such requests with immediate neighbors. It wasn’t uncommon for one homeowner to be approved, and the other homeowner denied, based on the approved homeowner having nicer, more tolerant neighbors. In my opinion, that’s over the top, entirely too much power; same with the trees in the original post - no HOA board should ever just decide to remove trees on its own. In my opinion, the entire community should have had an opportunity to debate and vote. </p>

<p>In other communities, HOA boards have done things like sue veterans for flying American flags, foreclose on homes when the owners are a month or two late in paying their dues (the cases involving elderly owners get a lot of news), and even legislate and enforce what color and size plants and flowers homeowners can have in their yards. </p>

<p>Of course, if any government agency has oversight over HOAs (and in California they might), the agency would say - and they’d be correct - that it is the responsibility of the homeowners to elect the appropriate people to the board, and that if the homeowners decided to sue the board, they would in effect be suing themselves.</p>

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<p>Good point, LTS. I guess subdivisions and HOAs vary in different parts of the country. In our neighborhood, there are restrictions on roofing materials (and on building materials, but I don’t think those can be enforced). However, the sidewalks and common areas are maintained by the HOA and any repairs or replacements made to the sidewalks would be decided by the HOA. I assume that’s also the case with Kluge’s trees, because in order for the HOA to cut them down wouldn’t they have to be in the common areas or rights-of-way? Kluge, can your HOA cut down trees on private property without permission, or were these trees in the common areas?</p>

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<p>HOA’s can be a good thing, in making people keep up their property, etc., but they can also be bad in that they are generally unregulated. Acouple years ago, there was a case in which the husband died, and the HOA sent letters to the widow and she, being elderly, did not open them, since they were not addressed to her. They were bills for the maintenance tax. The HOA went ahead and filed a lien and foreclosed on the property, selling a 250k house to a friend of one of the board members for 10-15k. Last I heard it was still in court, but it looked like the old lady was going to lose her house over this. The legislators screamed about this, and it looked like they would pass some new laws, but they didn’t. Anyway, if you want to avoic dealing with a HOA, buy in a unrestricted area.</p>

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<p>Wait until THAT tree falls unto your house and causes damage. Then wait to see if your HO Ins will renew at the old rate or a much higher rate or discontinue</p>

<p>I cut down many a tree for me and thee. An old tree needs to be taken out of its misery and done so quickly by chain saw and reverently disposed of by fireplace. </p>

<p>I See/ I Saw/ Heck to the Law.</p>

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<p>Perhaps this is why I don’t want to live in a HOA development. I want to make my own decisions about trees and roofing materials.</p>

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<p>Allmusic, I’m with you there. State law has changed since I purchased my home - now, homesellers/HOAs are required to provide copies of the deed restrictions before a sale can close. Had I had any clue, never would I buy in a HOA-governed community, which, conceptually should work very well, considering the community is supposed to be governed by the home owners, not by renegade boards. </p>

<p>In some areas it’s getting harder to find nice homes to buy that are not in HOA communities. Where I’m currently looking, it’s hard to avoid, the monthly fees are > $300-ish, and one must pass a screening by the HOA board, which often includes a personal interview. I’m not going down this road again, so will have to skip over such properties.</p>

<p>ejr1, that seems to happen a lot with senior citizens. It mostly seems to be a situation where one spouse passes away, and the remaining spouse hasn’t been the one in charge of finances, and doesn’t know or understand the HOA dues, because typically what happens is at the start of each fiscal year the board mails coupons for the monthly payments for the entire year. So it’s not as if a monthly bill arrives, which would typically alert most people to pay something. </p>

<p>By the time a homeowner is two months in arrears, the HOA attorney gets involved, but by then, late charges and attorneys fees are tacked on. (It’s the policy in my community that 60 days late = the attorney begins the foreclosure process, which begins with a certified letter.)</p>

<p>In supportive, responsible communities, typically a board member will make efforts to go talk to the person, and work with them to get payments caught up. But in some communities, there is no discussion or effort made at all, just a legal process that once started can be hard for a new widow/widower to untangle and stop, especially if they are dealing with the grief process and related matters, and especially if there are no children or other relatives close by to help them. Last, many elderly cannot bring themselves to believe that a legal process can take their home away - especially considering that usually their mortgages are paid off - so either they don’t read the mail, or don’t understand it, or don’t know what to do. </p>

<p>I believe California has passed some laws re foreclosure, but, far as I know, no other state has. Legislatures have tried, but, the reality is that most HOA lawyers lobby tend to be very aggressive in protecting their revenue streams, and there is no equally powerful and well funded representation on the part of dues-delinquent homeowners, so…</p>