hi everyone. I’m a transfer student majoring in compsci from the university of michigan who got into Johns Hopkins, UC Berkeley, UPenn, and UChicago. From my 4 choices, I’ve narrowed it down to UChicago and Penn. I’m certain that i’ll leave umich but I’m so damn stuck between my 2 choices. I was originally set on penn when I got in, but upon learning more about the school and visiting both campuses, I’ve some concerns.
My pros (+) and cons (-) are as follows:
UPENN
(+) great academic offerings in what I’m interested in (compbio and CS). I’ll be double majoring in computational biology and computer science at Penn, which surprisingly will lead to a very light schedule due to course overlaps and me being ahead in classes.
(+) lay prestige. it’s an ivy league.
(+) better weather than michigan
(+) private school - smaller class sizes, more time to interact with professors, easier time actually getting classes
(+) city life! philly has much more to do than Ann Arbor
(+) very solid transfer community. penn admits a ton of transfers and the transfer student organization seems like a really vibrant student group with ppl i’d vibe with.
(-) PRIMARY CONCERN: I’m afraid that I won’t fit in. I’ve heard many mixed things about student culture. Some say everyone here is overworked and depressed while others say that they’ve had the time of their lives. I understand that online forums skew negative but I’ve never seen a student body complain more about a school than penn. Frat culture seems to have a mixed rep as well. Some people say it’s toxic and others (namely another transfer from mich a year above me) say that frat culture is so much more inclusive at Penn compared to umich.
(-) I’m only interested in a small subfield of finance (biotech Venture Capital), but it annoys me that Wharton almost seems to overshadow Penn as a whole.
(-) Campus is similar to umich, which is not very aesthetic/pretty imo. University city also seems like a pretty rough neighborhood past a certain point west. I really enjoy walking alone past midnight listening to music, so that might be a pasttime i need to forgo.
UCHICAGO
(+) amazing campus. I was blown away by my visit. Hyde Park seems like a nice neighborhood, though areas far from campus have a reputation of being extremely dangerous (southside chicago?).
(+) i like chicago as a city more than philly, but im honestly not sure how important that is since a lot of my time will be on campus
(+) there’s only one undergraduate division at uchicago. less separation among students.
(+/-) Upon learning more about the Core, I’ve developed more mixed feelings towards it. I like the huge variety of courses i’ll have the chance to experience - especially civilizations courses. but a lot of what I liked about the core was the shared experience between students, which is not really a thing at chicago compared to other core curriculums.
(-) too much work. I’m willing to grind, but i feel like im far from your typical uchicago student. i dont savor in grinding homework till 3 am every night and all that.
(-) I don’t love the CS curriculum here. They teach it in a really weird theory-heavy approach. Also not a lot of compbio / ML courses.
(-) very very very cold.
Apologies for having such a long post and for posting so many times. I’m an extremely indecisive person and I’m really scared of regretting my decision. This community has genuinely been a lot of help these past 3 years and I’d be grateful for any thoughts and suggestions.
In reading your comparisons I’d say you’re leaning Penn.
Both campuses are in urban environments. The areas around UChicago seem to be a bit worse but you need to be aware of your surroundings in either locale. Penn has purchased and built housing all around the perimeter of the campus and they have on campus graduate housing as well so the area right around the school is in good shape. That being said, neither is Ann Arbor and walking alone after midnight is not a good idea at either school.
Your concern about Wharton is unfounded. It seems like Wharton overshadows the rest of Penn because most people who post or talk about Penn are trying to gain acceptance to the business school.
Penn seems more in line with your academic interests:
Penn: great academic offerings in what I’m interested in (compbio and CS). I’ll be double majoring in computational biology and computer science at Penn
vs
Chicago: I don’t love the CS curriculum here. They teach it in a really weird theory-heavy approach. Also not a lot of compbio / ML courses.
It seems that Penn fits you better. Go there and have a blast!
Oh, and you forgot the food component: Philadelphia has a lot of really great roast pork and cheesesteak sandwich purveyors. Check out the cheesesteaks at Angelo’s, John’s Roast Pork, and Curly’s.
For computational bio/CS I think Penn would be better. The CS department at UChicago is still growing, plus as you said it is very heavily weighted towards theory.
However I do want to point out that getting a position in VC right out of college is difficult. Its probably easier from Wharton, but it sounds like you’ve been accepted to Arts & Sciences.
You might want to network with grads of both colleges who are currently in VC and see what they suggest.
Your academic / career interests are better served at Penn or Cal.
I can’t imagine arriving late to the game at UChicago and having to try to catch up with the Core … at a college that is really, really challenging. It’s just a bad idea. If you go to UChicago, you may end up having to spend an extra year / more $ in order to graduate.
If I were you, I would be deciding between Penn and Cal, and I would choose Penn, despite your reservations.
I predict that VC in biotech will look very, very different by the time you graduate. Do NOT make a decision based on such a narrow field of employment interest. None of the VC’s may be hiring directly out of undergrad by the time you are ready to hit the job market…
The issue is that I’d have to retake a bunch of CS classes at Cal and hit a gpa threshold in order to major in CS. Since I have several good private options, I thought it wasn’t a risk that was worth taking
my biggest concern about Penn is also about fitting in. I heard that students are elitist and cliquey. Ive grown up surrounded by that “type” of people and I know that I’m not like that, so I’m afraid of not finding a community there that I feel comfortable being around.
Why did you rule out Hopkins? That seems like a school that has a more UChicago-like intellectual vibe, but still has the computational bio strength in addition to strong CS. (Plus, it has the Mid-Atlantic weather vs. Midwest Lake Effect.)
I ruled out Hopkins because I spoke with a few past transfers and unfortunately it seems like they did not like their experience. They had trouble integrating themselves into campus and told me student life wasn’t great. Apparently, sophomore transfers must stay in the McCoy dorm, which is the “worst” dorm on campus. I do regret not visiting their campus though.
That’s understandable. But Penn is a big enough university that I bet you would find plenty of potential friends who you are comfortable with. And there is no guarantee that UChicago or any other university would be less snobbish or cliquey. UChicago has quite a few private high school students that could be perceived as snobby, and not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but some UChicago students and alumni can be pretty pretentious. They are smart and very well educated, but most importantly, they want you to know it.
And a university’s social culture is such a subjective topic, the second or third hand opinions you have encountered may or may not be similar to what you would actually experience.
I have no connection to any of these specific universities, but I just want to highlight for you that I think you should stick to the objective facts, and weigh your options based on what you know to be true: the specific academic offerings that fit you, the logistics of fitting the core curriculum into your remaining years of college etc … my advice is don’t base such an important decision on subjective opinions and feelings that may or may not be true.
I understand your reservations about UPenn, but I’m not sure UChicago is any less worthy of reservations ( The Plight of Transfer Students – Chicago Maroon ), and you have a much more solid rationale for why Penn works for you academically.
Based on everything you’ve said, I’d go with Penn, and start strategizing about where and how to meet likeminded people. Probably the kind of classes you’ll be taking will be a good social incubator, for starters, but also consider what extracurriculars might help you find your tribe. There are undoubtedly other tribes - even larger ones - who aren’t “your people,” but that doesn’t matter as long as you find the peer group you’re looking for.
The primary purpose of college is academic study. It looks like Penn is a better academic fit for you than Chicago. How does your current college compare in academic fit?
Of the OP’s listed colleges, UCB takes a substantial number of transfer students (albeit mostly from in-state community colleges). However, the secondary admission to L&S CS with different lower division CS courses from those already taken is an understandable concern, and CS classes are huge because of the enormous student interest (the OP seems to want smaller class sizes).
I have been following your journey OP, and I hope you find yourself content at your new college. I never really understood your need to transfer. I vote for UPenn because I think it will fulfill many of your desired goals. Good luck!
The primary purpose of college is academic study. It looks like Penn is a better academic fit for you than Chicago. How does your current college compare in academic fit?
It is as you say. A large complaint of mine about mich, specifically the EECS department, is overcrowding - there were several times where i literally could not find another human being that could help me for some problem on my IDE or code. Michigan has 0 compbio classes in the EECS department but does have an accelerated 5-year masters program in bioinformatics, which is quite a hassle as I’d either have to rush through my 4-year curriculum in 3 years or spend 5 years to graduate.