@jym626, He did not. But I promise their EEO office and general counsel’s office, did.
Roycroftmom, you cant aim for a college that values personal initiative, putting the pieces together as best you can, etc, with an attitude that they have to hand you the info. That’s counterintuitive. Don’t you do your due diligence in your work?
Why do you advocate for leaning back, waiting for someone to clue you in? What happened to that initiative? Why do you persist in saying it’s a black box? Did you do no research for your kids?
The excuse isn’t that they get public funds. The govt, as it stands, is satisfied with their processes.
And some of us insist you can get plenty of picture by looking at the info that IS out. Not stats, but the rest of what’s there. A good look, some analytical skills, some basic logic, shows much.
Just by putting these pieces together, I can tell you plenty about what a college looks for. Why not try it?
Right. And the applicants for colleges and other jobs also do not. Nor should they. But their admissions offices do, which is where the information remains.
The ongoing lawsuit against Harvard will be interesting to see what information other than diversity numbers and corresponding stats will be shared.
@looking forward, the fact that you may know, and I may know, does not really help the tens of thousands of kids who do not know, and who may not have the time, energy or sophistication to find out. It is the very definition of an insider’s game, where some of us are privy to helpful hints and others are not. So the foster kids, the low income, the first generation, the immigrant kids-They can all just figure it out for themselves, while working several jobs or taking care of siblings? Rather callous and frankly arrogant. Not all have the ability to engage in the search to that extent, as surely you realize.
Ok, enough hashing out the transparency issue, which has another other thread dedicated to it. Back to the OP’s original intent - blowing off some steam.
I don’t think the wooing of students who have very little chance of getting in gets enough flack, so let me add some. Brochure after brochure arrives (electronic and snail mail) with some variation of “we are the perfect school for you”, followed by a chart of 25/75% SAT/ACT scores for the school. For the non CC junkie, the obvious conclusion is “huh, this school singled me out and wants me to apply. And my scores are above the 75th percentile - and it looks like a great place!” when in reality, almost no shot (true at the most selective schools of the unhooked, but also true for hooked kids whose qualifications are at the lower end of the school’s range). Someone on another thread said it best - the colleges try to create a real relationship with you, even when your chances of getting in are miniscule. As result the rejection feels like a break up, when it should feel like someone swiped left on your Tinder profile.
The students who don’t take the time, energy or have the level on problem-solving skills or desire to research/discover the information they need for the application process (much of which is readily available) are likely not the kind of student the top colleges are looking for, @roycroftmom.
@RockySoil - interesting analogy to tinder 
Learning the difference between a personal invitation and marketing/advertising is a tough but important one.
Actually, @ jym626, many of them are precisely the students HYPSM seeks. Students too busy doing important real world things to spend all their time on the college admissions industry. As an alum interviewer for an HYP, I was explicitly instructed to look for such “diamonds in the rough” and contact admissions directly if I identified one.
If kids don’t have “the time, energy or sophistication,” they shouldn’t be dreaming of colleges that expect this.
And I don’t know how other colleges work because I work for one. It’s in the the look-see I DID make.
If you google, you can find how H sets up its review process. They put the info out there (not some reporter for a newspaper.) How many staff, who’s faculty vs adcoms/readers, and much more. Some advise on what makes a great essay, what sorts of ECs work better, what stretch means to them, the fact it’s not an AP arms race, and more. Who has looked for this?
If folks put 10% of the effort they spend on dissing the colleges into looking for this info, you’d have a much better picture.
I can speak for “the foster kids, the low income, the first generation, the immigrant kids,” whose apps I’ve seen and you can bet your booty the bright ones are looking and processing. That’s not the kids aiming for Wharton who ask if their volume of youtube followers will get them in. It’s not the ardently unilateral kids. It’s not about LAX camp or being president of the pep club or fundraising.
What’s “real relationship” about getting a mailer or email?
Why do folks place so much faith in a mailer? You still have to do the work to self match and one thing high schools do teach bright kids is to not take everything at face value.
This argument devalues kids, says they aren’t bright enough, but should still get into the college of their dreams. If you aren’t savvy, “they should tell you.” On what planet?
Here it is May 7 and DS19 is still waiting to hear from his top 2 choices. I envy all of you who know one way or another. I think if I check his portal one more time and still see "pending’ I’m going to go nuts lol. He did get early offers in Dec-Feb but it’s been a long waiting game since then.
You are talking about a generation of kids which posts pictures of their breakfast oatmeal on Instagram and won’t buy a bottle of shampoo without evaluating online reviews, and you’re all worried they can’t find information on the Internet because it’s “buried” in an FAQ section of a college’s website?
The most technologically savvy cohort in human history and they allegedly don’t know that a mass email is just that- a mass email?
Some of you are veering off into conspiracy/man in a tin hat territory. But I will make a general statement- if your overall concern is NOT personal… and you’re just worried about “other people’s kids”- I hope you are all spending as much time lobbying your city reps and state legislators as you are getting agitated about the secret formula and opaque and misleading and duplicitous admissions practices of Harvard. Lobby them hard- for better high schools, for more transparencies in the carryover of credits from your CC’s to the flagship, to extend that last bus which leaves the CC at 6 pm, so that a working adult without a car can’t take night classes, to eliminate the fees needed to pay for AP exams so that a poor but smart HS kid doesn’t get the benefit of AP credits that her affluent classmate gets.
Lobby hard. You guys have so much anger and passion directed at one institution-- just one- that enrolls a tiny percentage of college students in America. Don’t leave behind the kid who is going to end up taking 6 years to get a BS from Framingham State (mere miles down the turnpike from Harvard) because her first two years in “college” were spent on remedial work for the things she didn’t learn in her $%^& HS.
"you cant aim for a college that values personal initiative, putting the pieces together as best you can, etc, with an attitude that they have to hand you the info. That’s counterintuitive. Don’t you do your due diligence in your work?
Why do you advocate for leaning back, waiting for someone to clue you in? What happened to that initiative? Why do you persist in saying it’s a black box? Did you do no research for your kids?"
This is exactly what happens to recruited athletes at selective colleges, even Stanford and Cal. The athletes have their hands held through the entire process, what to say in the essay, what scores they need, what to major in, what courses to take, handling LORs, putting the pieces together for the applicant. And its not just the revenue sports where this happens. In all your points on initiative and logic, research, athletes even at the ivies, are flaws in your arguments.
That all being said, not everyone has access to the internet at home, so telling applicants to find an internet connection and use it at school or maybe library if possible already biases the applicant pool to upper middle class and wealthier families, exactly what these colleges want.
Most kids have access to the web, somewhere. I don’t know what the example of athletes getting help with apps proves. You have to know by now that I object to the special treatment for recruits who can’t function well at a college, despite their athletic prowess.
None of this is about some random kid without access. And it points to: if they don’t, how do they keep up with assignmnts, research, and presuppose they can manage well at a college that relies of tech savvy?
“upper middle class and wealthier families, exactly what these colleges want.” Oh yeah?
OP - here again.
Thread has somewhat went off the rails, but still interesting to read. My original intent was to blow of some steam talk about how much work these seniors have to do to apply for the schools and merit and feel good that for one day the schools might have some of the pressure the kids had for a long time.
In the end I know my D19 got tired of writing essays and having to schedule things around school and work and ECs. It was tough but we got through it and we are happy with where D19 ended up. It is in my nature to make processes simpler and more efficient. It is something that is part of my job and how I live. So I would love for the process to be easier in 4 years from now when I do it all over again. I have learned some lessons that will help.
But to be honest it just never seems to end. D19 won a small one year scholarship from a national company. We were happy. D19 went to go claim it on their site and the company is requiring that she writes another 250 words about how it feels to win. Then the school she is going to in the fall has 2 early-bird programs that she qualifies for to arrive a week early. They want her to write something about that before they will let her come early. The poor kid has practically written a book this year. And I am too old and tired of pestering her to make sure this stuff gets done.
@blossom in #206 you said:
quote didn’t take him because he applied early to Yale.
[/quote]
First, was he accepted early to Yale?
Second, how could you possibly know the reason for his rejection?
Harvard admission is incredibly selective, but I don’t think it is vindictive.
Harvard COULDN’T take him because he didn’t apply (sorry, my version of a bad joke). He was a multi generation legacy, but refused to apply to Harvard; instead he applied to Yale where he had no connections.
I have no idea if he would have been accepted to Harvard-- nor did he- but presumably he was “admittable” since he got into Yale with no apparent finger on the scale.
“The poor kid has practically written a book this year.”
Well, good practice for college as a rigorous college, depending on major, will have her writing 10 page papers in a week or less. Those 250 word essays will seem like nothing. 
Oh, I do @blossom.and what you term “anger and passion” isn’t directed at Harvard exclusively by any means. There are 150 schools just as guilty of gaming the system as Harvard, and likely more-Harvard is just one drop in the bucket, though might have enough influence to sway the overall process slightly, if it were inclined to do so, which it is not. But in the end, I don’t need to worry-my righteous indignation aside, lawsuits, demographic shifts and finances will eventually accomplish changes in the college industry.
The demographic shifts favor wealthy full pay families from overseas… so not sure THAT trend is inline with your aspirations!
Ah, got it @blossom Thanks for clarifying.