“OP - here again.
Thread has somewhat went off the rails, but still interesting to read. My original intent was to blow of some steam talk about how much work these seniors have to do to apply for the schools and merit and feel good that for one day the schools might have some of the pressure the kids had for a long time.”
Same thing happened with a different thread a week or two ago with the holistic and more transparency groups going back and forth. The mods shut it down after a while. Back to your original post, I actually kind of felt bad when DS had to notify the schools that accepted him that he would not be attending. DS was waitlisted by BU, and we were kind of annoyed because he should have skated in based on his stats (lack of demonstrated interest was probably the issue). In any event, BU contacted him a few days ago about getting in off the WL and he (respectfully) declined. I even felt kind of bad about that. As for the two schools that rejected him (both Ivies), no hard feelings there. We knew going in that they were long shots and DS is pleased with the school he is attending.
Who do you think is combing through college websites, looking for hints, reading between the tea leaves, trying to interpret what the colleges look for? And then package them in a way that gets the attention and nod from an AO? The 17-year-old who’s taking a full load of courses and participating in all the ECs? Whom do you think this process favor? Any wonder why these colleges want to enroll a few disadvantaged kids to make themselves look more diverse?
@1NJParent I agree with you. I talked a lot with my mom during this process. We would discuss the differences between when I went through the process and now D19. She admitted she honestly had no clue what really was going on with college for me. Neither of my folks went and of course information is was lacking back then.
I know today that you can find info on anything you want on the old interwebs, but some kids aren’t as skilled at this stuff like we are or they don’t have a ton of time. Sure they can work a social media app because all their friends do, but some haven’t been taught normal investigation research on the net.
It is tough. Sometimes I think they are still just kids. They are still learning and will make plenty of mistakes. I know I did back then.
The vast majority of colleges in America do not require reading tea leaves or looking for hints. The vast majority look at grades and scores; some will have a brief essay.
I pity the kid heading off to college (of whatever socio-economic group) who has not mastered googling or just downloading a simple PDF.
How on earth do you think a kid- rich, poor, in between- is going to get a Bachelor’s degree without being able to do basic research? (like “what date is the last day to apply for financial aid at your college”).
We’re supposed to be providing a college education for kids who can’t do that level of basic research?
I understand not having a computer at home. I understand not having internet access at home, or having parents who speak English at home. What I don’t understand is how a kid is going to get a college degree if he or she can’t figure out how to use the computers at school, or at the public library.
Kids don’t have enough time to look up application deadlines?
Who taught us “normal investigation research on the web”? You think a kid who can’t find the internet is going to survive a four year college and come out with a degree?
@roycroftmom - of course we alum interviewers (I am for a top LAC) are told to look for diamonds in the rough. But when its obvious they haven’t done a lick of research about the school and really can’t tell you anything about the school, what they want to take there, what they want to participate in there, why they want to attend that school, what they bring to that school’s community, etc, - that is not the kind of student they are looking for.
Yes, blossom, those people whose lives are too busy or stressed to jump through the unnecessary hoops some colleges set up should of course limit themselves to lesser schools where they belong. Got it.
Im.not fir the false social concern about “us vs them.” There are posters on this thread who blame the colleges. In 17 pages, how many have brought up some of the true details they can glean? What, one who raised doubts about H’s 'no tip for early?"
So you aren’t doing any digging?
Believe me, bright kids on CC can do it. Low SES kids CAN present solid, on target apps.
But not us? You’re arguing why you cant be bothered. Maybe you have to live with that.
For someone who hates the elite college monopoly on college life, you seem pretty disdainful of all the other institutions that are out there. Especially the institutions which were expressly created to serve the needs of adult learners, first gen, poor, ex-military, etc. which have virtually NO hoops to jump through.
Next time I interview kids who are supervising 3 siblings under age 10 because the mom walked out, or are taking time off their 40 hour per week job to come to the interview, I will refer them to this thread. Your animosity is misdirected at me-I had plenty of time, resources and support to engage in all the endless research and visits I wanted to, as did my children (and we did lots?). We should all be so fortunate. Few are. Signing off.
@blossom If all this is so easy these days and so intuitive then why do old people have to call Tech support just to convert a word doc to a PDF? Or why do people need the Geek Squad to hook up their TV for them?
Heck why don’t all parents easily know everything that the folks on CC know. Why do people take out loans for college that they almost have no hope of paying back before they are 50 years old. Why did people buy a house with no money down and just paying the interest for the first year before the payment exploded in year two where they would never be able to afford.
Let’s face it gaining all this info about the college process can be tough. It can be overwhelming to some who don’t have years of experience on their side or a parent who happens to know what is going on. It took me about 2-3 months to get back up to speed on what is new/changed in the college process.
Plus we have weed through all the bs on the net as well because we all know not everything you read on the net is true.
Heck I feel sorry for some kids I know because their parents are almost no help in the whole process.
I definitely subscribe to the philosophy that if you can read and write and have basic math skill that with a library card you can learn anything you want. Libraries will get you almost any book for free and they all have computers. But that is not the mindset we have right now. You still have to teach a child that mindset and show them the ropes. Most kids pick up things a million times faster than adults, but part of the challenge is just being in the right environment.
My D19 last year as a junior like many kids on this site took 5 AP classes and a Honors Math class. Played two sports and even worked a couple of hours a week. Plus normal other ECs. And prepped for the SAT/ACT. Did she have extra time to figure what schools make the most sense to apply to based on her stats. The poor kid would be up past midnight most nights. She did the work and we are proud of her. We never pushed her and actually told her to only take 4 APs.
Someone might say well what about the Summer. D19 worked her butt off in the summer working more than 40 hours almost all weeks. She had some 12-13 hour days in there as well.
So I am going to give her a break that she didn’t sit down and research every freaking college website to figure what was best.
Sometimes we need to remember what seems easy for one person can be daunting for others.
@roycroftmom For several years, I have helped our local high school with mock interviews for the technical program students. Anyone who claims an interest in engineering or anything mechanical is sent to me. Truthfully, in all my years, only one kid had promise to be an engineer. At best, a few might wind up with an engineering technology degree. Very few are headed to college. The average weighted GPA of these students might be 2.0.
But conducting these interviews is one of my favorites activities. A lot of the time, I don’t even conduct the interview in a traditional fashion. I have my list of questions, but I will stop and try to help coach the answers, drawing out more of themselves. I love to listen to these kids’ stories. I grew up with professional parents in an affluent school. The differences in these kids’ lives sometimes floors me. One question “What is your proudest achievement?” Many of them answer with “it will be when I graduate high school,” because they will be the FIRST EVER in their family to do so.
One kid’s response was “When I graduated 8th grade.” Why? Because he didn’t think he would make it, but he did and “It was just such a happy day in my family. Everyone was in a good mood.” Another kid had a “rough home life growing up.” Turns out she didn’t attend school until she was 10 and taught herself one summer how to read/write and do math.
I’m sure many of them know perfectly well how to google. But the whole process is unknown. There is nobody to guide them here. They have no idea how it works. And their parents don’t care if they go or not. I went to college and thought I knew what I was doing with my kids, but looking back we could have done a lot of things differently.
And just last week my spouse was conducting standardized tests and had to escort a kid to the bathroom. During the trip, he told him how they haven’t had a working toilet in months. They use the yard and try to do #2 at school. There are just some things we can’t imagine.
“Next time I interview kids who are supervising 3 siblings under age 10 because the mom walked out, or are taking time off their 40 hour per week job to come to the interview”
I think college admissions officers are pretty good at discerning background and situation and factoring that into the application. One of the benefits of holistic admissions is being able to not treat everyone the same and like a number. Applicants are more than their stats, right? Holistic admissions actually helps students like this.
@roycroftmom -your faux victim claim is not going to play here. Glad to hear the argumentative tone will stop (and maybe the hyperbole too, one can hope). Even the kid with 3 siblings to watch who is also working an outside job should make the time to read something about the school they are interviewing for (online, advertising, in their HS, etc). If they figured out what it took to apply to an elite, they should know something about the school before showing up for an interview.
It is elitist in the extreme to believe that nothing less than a Harvard or Stanford admission will provide a first gen kid from a poor background with the tools needed to succeed in life.
It is elitist in the extreme to believe that a kid who is motivated enough to WANT to go to college (and not all do) and is attending high school (even a terrible one) can’t find his or her way to the guidance office or the principals office or even to stop by the English teacher’s desk to ask “can you help me apply to college?”
I’ve interviewed poor, first gen kids for my alma mater and some of them are so supremely talented and filled with promise it makes me cry to think about them. And the obstacles they face- the families relying on their wages to keep the lights on, so even a full ride with everything included is going to be a hardship-- is really humbling. But these kids who read Chaucer for fun (because the book looked “cool” in the public library) are more than capable of conducting basic internet research (from a classroom computer if they don’t have a computer or 'net at home) and asking a teacher for help. They take care of younger siblings, they take grandma to the doctor because they may be the only “almost adult” in the family who speaks English, yes. But they also go to HS, have teachers who know their names, have social workers who have gotten the family benefits they didn’t know they qualified for, and principals who pay the SAT testing fees out of their own pocket. These “college ready” kids aren’t growing up on Mars.
And why is it only a success when a kid growing up in a homeless shelter gets into Yale? Isn’t it a success when that same kid gets into U Conn? (although you can insert your curse here for the powers that be that stuck CT’s flagship campus in a place which is not commutable from New Haven, New London, Bridgeport, Danbury, Waterbury, etc.)
Not a faux victim. The kid was real, and no, he did not get accepted at the school I interview for. Not hyperbole either. It is a great big world out there, and many kids outside of CC are facing some horrific challenges you can not even imagine. I hope he did get in somewhere where he finds decent people willing to help him. Glad some of you know kids like him who get help from social workers, schools, etc. Not everyone does. He did not.
You aren’t a victim, @jym626, faux or real. Truly. There are many needy and deserving kids out there. Hope you get to meet some someday; they might change your mind and persuade you of the importance of compassion. Til then, happy researching!