Well, then my recommendation is to stay out of the “elitist” forums. I too was confused by your “elite or bust vibe” statement because I really only peruse the Financial Aid & Scholarships forum, which is anything but elitist – all sorts of suggestions on how to find and thrive at lower ranked (and cost) schools.
@foobar1 “Elite or bust”
It appears throughout the thread posters tried to dissuade the OP of his original comment… “feels a bit “off” that he could have not taken the path he took, seriously reduced his load, spent less time in test prep and ended up in the same school for the same price.” Goal having been to convince OP that his kids work wasn’t wasted and that great opportunities exist regardless of “elite” status.
So not sure that sentiment exists within this thread at all. I also can’t recall any other threads where posters are marginalized, diminished or ignored based upon the tier of school they are attending or seeking. To the contrary people are very forthright, generous and supportive in my experience (even if candor and personal adult accountability is sometimes not well received).
So I am not sure I understand the +1,000 times! Just because CC readers seem to traffic in the elite names doesn’t suggest disdain towards schools outside the proverbial “tip top”. I certainly have never read any adult post anything remotely conveying “elite or bust”. To the contrary the CC community consistently seeks to recalibrate expectations, offer alternative paths and assure those uninformed that some “lesser” known schools offer equal educational opportunities.
Once again happy to apologize if I missed something, just not my experience.
FYI only mention of any Ivy (and yes there are only 8) was by OP who was an alum of Brown.
@jd7777: btw Brown’s NPC is quite unforgiving in terms of equity/assets, so try other universities and LACs’ NPCs.
Foobar- most HS kids in America (and their parents) have no interest in a college chat whatsoever. They are either going to their state flagship-- if their stats are high enough, and if it’s affordable, or a college which they can commute to-- either a CC or a four year.
That doesn’t mean that people who are interested in the topics hashed out here are elitists. They are parents looking for information on the Service Academies, because they have no experience with the military. There are parents wondering if they should take their cash and buy an annuity to “shield” their assets from the financial aid formulas-- quick answer is “usually no”. There are parents trying to understand the difference between U Michigan and Michigan State, because they live in Pennsylvania and don’t know anyone in Michigan but the guidance counselor suggested exploring both. There are parents wondering how the U Maine “in state” discount operates if they live in CT.
Not elitist, just looking for information which they can’t find locally so they join a national resource to find it. If my kids had been interested in the college down the street from us, I wouldn’t have found CC either- their GC has successfully helped HUNDREDS of kids get accepted there, the college has several “get to know you” events every summer and fall targeted to local families, and the Principal of the HS serves on the advisory board and can answer virtually any question a kid might have.
Doesn’t make someone an elitist for looking beyond a five mile radius of their home. And if the messages offend you-- find another hobby.
Let’s be honest, there are a number of individual posters with an elite or bust attitude on CC. They are quite vocal. But as a whole, I wouldn’t say there is an elite or bust attitude.
And in an interesting irony, my experience at an “elite” taught me that the price of the degree was not worth the corresponding value.
Not to be argumentative… no, scratch that, let me be totally argumentative. 
IMHO the most common (and valuable) posts on this forum are the following:
- You need affordable schools
- You need a safety on your list
- Here are some safeties for you
It’s anything but elitist.
@JD7777 I went to a non-elite school. What I learned is that education at an elite institution is worth more than the corresponding value. My neighbors are all Stanford graduates. Well, I exaggerate. One went to ND and another Dartmouth. Oh, and the immigrant family that came from India with $20 in their pockets. We’re having dinner together Saturday night. Other than that though… :lol:
@JD7777 and @sushiritto I would suggest you are both correct. A determined, smart and committed student can thrive at any school and be extremely successful professionally. Elite schools do in many cases provide easier access to a variety of resources, connections and opportunities that may prove more elusive (although in existence) at other schools.
The greatest determinant of eventual achievement is the individual. Two other points:
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The Ivies and other elites do tend to have over representation in prominent positions but that is arguably a function of both the rigor of the selection process and the individuals who gain admission (not diminishing those that don’t get in but so many highly qualified). These high performers are then immersed in a community blessed with world class resources, a community of similarly accomplished students and a loyal and influential alumni network. For some individuals this is undeniably worth the cost.
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If an individual doesn’t have professional aspirations towards high income careers an Ivy or elite school will not make monetary sense. Individuals should not spend large sums of money (they don’t have) pursuing an education only to bemoan its lack of earning power having chosen careers in which rewards are largely non financial. Translation don’t blame the school if you don’t make much money as a social worker, teacher, florist, etc. This should be self evident. The elite school can open lots of doors but the one the individual chooses to walk through dictates their personal financial outcome. So for some aspiring to lesser paying fields elites are hardly worth it. That doesn’t however mean you couldn’t have leveraged the degree to a greater extent if you had been so inclined. Once again individual choice.
Restating my opinion…the individual dictates the outcome, and lots of schools offer great opportunities…so elite or bust is BS.
don’t you think it’s all relative with where you are for the elite benefits? My sis is in the Bay Area working for a big-name tech company. She said she’d Never get her job now without an elite JD degree; it’s a must. But here in the midwest-- so many people do fine without one - no one cares- it’s just not a “thing.” Just adding my two-cents worth!
Even for the, say, “less than stellar” performers too.
For some individuals an elite education is undeniably worth the cost. There’s no doubt in my mind that elite schools provide access to an unbelievable wealth of alumni connections and/or networks. I’ve seen it first hand over a VERY long time.
And for my kid’s Class of 2022, six (6) of 7 classmates that matriculated to Stanford last year were legacies. So, there’s that.
EDIT: I live in Silicon Valley, so I’m sure @bgbg4us is correct, there are many areas of the country where an elite education doesn’t matter a lick.
Geography yes and field/industry perhaps even more. I’ve told more than one person that I only believe paying for an “elite” expensive degree (undergrad) works is if a student is 100% committed to medicine or finance. Outside of those 2 fields, in my experience with many Ivy alum friends ranging from multimillionaire fund managers to struggling artists, it won’t usually pencil out. Now if you are atypically wealthy or otherwise not going deeply into debt, that is a different equation altogether and it could be a wise choice.
Actually, choosing an elite university for medecine may be the worst move (much too competitive, thus eliminating from contention applicants who’d have had a good chance from their flagship or from a less competitive LAC… all for naught because your college’s name doesn’t even enter the algorithm that “cuts” applicants) and choosing an elite university for Humanities may be the best move (because the value of the degree is linked to the name of the university rather than the exact subject, and/or there are closeknit networks of alumni in some fields such as English or Art History from some specific colleges and/or some subjects may not attract the best students or may be last-resort choices at a random university whereas at an elite university all students are stellar regardless of major).
It does matter for specific fields in finance (front office Wall Street).
Intersting you mention Art History. The Art History “mafia” (not my expression) from Williams College (“elite” LAC; 2019-2020 tuition/fees/room/board = $72,270) is a recognized phenomenom.
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/31/arts/legacy-one-college-s-long-shadow-looking-back-at-the-williams-mafia.html
https://artwirth.com/2015/06/24/williams-art-mafia/
Law job hiring generally is reputedly highly elitist with respect to one’s law school, although graduates of a “top” regional law school that is not ranked highly nationally may have decent law job prospects in the region.
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/
In contrast, hiring for computing jobs is much less school-elitist at many (big and small) computer companies.
As college tuition continues to go up every year this is what I see happening…I went to college in the 90s and my generation was the last to be able to reasonably afford private college or public college without loans. This current generation will be the last to reasonably afford in-state public college with dorming. Next generation will be last to majority afford in-state public colleges without dorming. Since I’m a dentist I use private dental school tuition as a barometer of how much predental students are willing to pay to go to dental school. It’s currently approaching $500,000 for four years of private dental school - applications to dental school have not gone down but students are starting to question viability and ability to pay back loans. What this means though is that even though private college is currently around $80,000 year ($320,000 for four years) we still have a ways to go before there is pushback.
Edit: there is no merit aid or need based aid for dental students so basically it’s either full pay or loans.
@ucbalumnus Graduate school is an entirely different conversation, one that I don’t know as well.
“Law job hiring generally is reputedly highly elitist with respect to one’s law school, although graduates of a “top” regional law school that is not ranked highly nationally may have decent law job prospects in the region.”
However, admission to law school is based on 2 things: LSAT and GPA. You don’t get extra points for going to a more “elite” school or choosing a more difficult major (perhaps engineering if you are looking to do IP). Otherwise, a 4.33 from podunk U and a 178 on the LSAT, will probably still get you into Harvard Law and merit $ from the other T14 that give it.
@MYOS1634 I must admit that my experience is dated (left college world 20+ years ago) but when my classmates were applying to med schools the school’s name was VERY much a factor towards acceptance. As my classmates and friends were applying to different med schools across the US, there was not a sense among them that they were competing against one another. MCATs were a big deal. Friends from local state schools could not get accepted (with similar high grades/stats). Perhaps the mechanics of the medical school admissions process has changed. I likely wouldn’t know.
[quote=“MYOS1634, post:113, topic:2062182”]
Actually, choosing an elite university for medecine may be the worst move (much too competitive, thus eliminating from contention applicants who’d have had a good chance from their flagship or from a less competitive LAC… all for naught because your college’s name doesn’t even enter the algorithm that “cuts” applicants)
@JD7777
Medical school admission has changed a great deal in the past 20 years. Medical school admission has become much more competitive with many school receiving 15+ applications for every available seat. MCAT + GPA/sGPA form first (and easiest) round of application culling. GPAs are never “adjusted” for things like perceived rigor of undergrad grading, perceived difficulty of major or undergraduate brand name.
In an annual survey of Medical School Admission Deans, the selectivity of the student’s undergrad was ranked as having the “lowest importance” among factors considered when selecting students for admission.
https://www.aamc.org/download/498250/data/usingmcatdatain2020medstudentselection.pdf