Lawyers, Doctors and Everyone Else, Your Input Needed!!!

Parent Cafe
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<p>Ok, so I’m sure many of you have heard about the parents who steer their kids either toward the law school or med school route. Perhaps you’ve been in this situation yourself. I’m posting here in need of some advice and this time, not to sound commanding, but I’d like a little more than just “you have your whole life ahead of you to decide!” and things like that. </p>

<p>So here’s the jist of it: I’d like to pursue law school (not just to be a lawyer) since I want to venture into real estate and financial ventures in the future and feel that a law education would greatly benefit me. My parents, on the other hand, while not strongly opposed to law school, feel that med school is the better route. </p>

<p>Now, here’s the dilemma: I haven’t completely rejected their idea, and I’ll tell you why. For one thing, I’m very interested in human biology and study of the human body. But in my mind, I don’t think I want to be a doctor so badly that my want for it will ecclipse other factors such as time commitment (10 years more or less), compassion for patients, sacrifice, etc. Yes, I like human biology and such, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I’d like to work in a medical office the rest of my life tending to patients (I personally am not too partial to medical offices nor to hospitals). To put it simply, working in an office (or hospital) every day tending compassionately to people with health problems does not entirely appeal to me. (And while I enjoy life sciences, working in a laboratory and doing research does not appeal much to me, either.)</p>

<p>When I tell them “listen, I don’t think I can stay in school for 10 years… it’s too much of a sacrifice, and I’d rather enter the workforce as soon as possible” they reply “o comon, you can do it. you study till 1 AM everyday anyway!” … It’s very easy to say such things, but whoever said med school was easy? </p>

<p>Now, I hear very often that lawyers are unhappy with their jobs (some, not all) and that they don’t often encourage their kids to become lawyers. But… I’m sure lawyers can venture out into other fields, can’t they? (financial planning, in-house counsel, real estate, politics, etc.). Isn’t that a perk/benefit of law school? </p>

<p>On the other hand, I’ve never personally heard the same of doctors, meaning, I’ve never really heard a doctor say “Oh gosh, this job is killing me! The horror, the horror!” I don’t suppose a doctor’s work is much easier than a lawyer’s, yet at times it seems to me (from personal experience) that the doctor enjoys his job more. </p>

<p>But what do I know, right? That’s why I’d like some personal input from anyone who can tell me about the benefits and disadvantages of 1. med and law school 2. being a doctor/lawyer</p>

<p>(Just a side note: I don’t think I’ll cater to my parents’ wants if their suggestions don’t interest me, so in case anyone’s wondering, no, I wouldn’t go to med school due to parental pressure.)</p>

<p>Much thanks for reading this post; I apologize for its lengthiness. I would appreciate any valuable opinions. :)</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>If you don’t want to be a doctor, don’t go to med school. I don’t really understand why you’re still considering med school since you don’t want to be a doctor or do research.</p></li>
<li><p>If you want to be a lawyer, and if you want to go to law school, go to law school and become a lawyer. That’s a pretty simple equation.</p></li>
<li><p>Some lawyers don’t like their jobs. Some doctors don’t like their jobs. I know doctors and lawyers who love and who hate their jobs, just like in any profession. I’ve actually heard more doctors recently who don’t like their jobs, probably in part due to increasing demands and falling pay.</p></li>
<li><p>Going to law school in order to get into another field, especially if you don’t plan to use what you’ve learned in law school or in practice, is almost always a stupid way to spend three years and however much your law school tuition costs.</p></li>
<li><p>You don’t need to decide whether or not to apply to law school for a long time, I’m assuming. Don’t stress.</p></li>
<li><p>There is no reason why you need to go to law school or med school–or any professional school, really. You can get started in the real estate or financial fields without professional school, though you may decide on an MBA in the future, depending on what you’re doing.</p></li>
<li><p>There are a lot of lawyers right now, and it’s difficult for many of them to find good jobs. It’s something to keep in mind.</p></li>
<li><p>Think of things you may want to do. Get internships in the fields during college. Re-evaluate.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Don’t be a doctor if you don’t have the passion for it. I am a nurse and see way too many med students who I think went into medicine for the wrong reasons. They make lousy doctors and the nurses all hope that they go into a field where they don’t have to interact with patients.
There is the trap that medicine and law are the only fields that will get you prestige and money.
Lots of other things to do with your life.
Find your passion</p>

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<p>I’m a lawyer who loves my current job, but I have had a couple that were horrible. I DO think a law degree benefits someone in many areas of business (and life). You study a lot of different things in law school, and a passion can be revealed. In my case- and this was back in the day when not many lawyers chose this route (especially from top law schools)- I realized I needed to work in-house, for corporations, so I could feel a part of business decisions and see things through.<br>
I had a co-worker way back who focused in labor law and became VP of Labor and Employment for a large airline.<br>
On the other hand, the son of a friend of mine bailed out of law school after one year. It just wasn’t for him.</p>

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<p>

I think that, too. I also think that there are better ways to spent three years + tuition + the cost of lost wages during those three years than going to law school for someone who does not have the intention to practice law.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your responses. Corranged, from what I understand, many people who go to law school are not forced to stuck being lawyers all their lives. The beauty of a law education is that lawyers can branch out into different fields; I personally hear of many law grads who don’t work in law firms, but who work for financial corporations, brokerage firms and the like. Such people take what they’ve learned in law school and use it for business, real estate, etc., so it’s not necessarily a waste. (I’m not saying I’d go to law school and never work in a firm; I’m just saying that I think a law education would benefit my future career in more ways than one).</p>

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<p>Highly subjective, but as I work with doctors, I know their lives can be difficult. Lots of call, always balancing time and never ending human need. The doctors I work with are highly principled people with a firm committment to doing the best for their patients. If you don’t have that sort of commitment or interest, don’t go there. Pay is decreasing, and doctors are very torn with the efforts to reform medicine to fit a business model. </p>

<p>Lawyers…depending on the specialty, seem to charge quite a large amount of money for assembling facts and logical thinking. I’m sure some work hard, but it seems far more controllable a lifestyle. </p>

<p>If you still have doubts, see about volunteering in a hospital, or job shadowing an attorney.</p>

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<p>Great Lakes Mom, wow, thank you for that insight! It seems to me (in my experience) that many older people around me always trump the benefits of being a doctor but never consider or even mention the hardships! Thank you again for your post.</p>

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<p>“Pay is decreasing”</p>

<p>Coming into medicine why would that matter? You won’t miss any meals. Mine just started med school, the little bell didn’t really go off till more than halfway through undergrad. Breaking his ankle in LAX actually helped him a great deal. He got to jobshadow the orthopedic surgeon for several months and found he enjoyed the variety the job brings. </p>

<p>I would suggest if possible try and job shadow what your interested in BEFORE you make the commitment$$$. Anybody can make a living, what’s special is when you make a life for yourself. Look around a bit and see what’s there.</p>

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<p>Thank you, Opie ofMaybery2, good words of advice.</p>

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<p>My brother in law went to law school and has never practiced law. He sells insurance to corporations. (health care) His accounts are huge and his knowledge of the law sets him apart from others within the same industry. (his competitors) He is often called upon by his clients for court cases due to insurance issues. (he is an expert in every way) A law degree can be used in a multitude of professions outside of just law.</p>

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<p>My uncle was a tax lawyer and loved his job. My bil also went to law school - he’s had a variety of jobs since - helping rewrite regulations after the savings and loan debacle, working for VISA and now working at Google. He does legal stuff, but it’s not the classic law firm setting. Don’t go to med school if the passion isn’t there. Have you done any volunteering in a medical setting - you might have a better idea if you did, and you might honestly be able to tell your parents you know it isn’t for you because of your experiences.</p>

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<p>I went to law school never having wanted to be an actual lawyer, and have been an actual lawyer more or less continuously, and more or less happily, since I finished my post-law school clerkships. My wife went to law school not really wanting to be a lawyer, and she hasn’t practiced law in 18 years. But she finds her legal training to be valuable all the time. And her law degree did exactly what she hoped it would – gave her a flexible credential that lent gravitas to a young woman’s resume, and got her some opportunities to show what she could do. The only mistake she made was being convinced, for a while, during law school, that she DID want to be a lawyer. The five years she spent practicing as a lawyer after law school were the part of her career that she enjoyed least.</p>

<p>Lots of lawyers wind up in other fields. The transition is often smooth and natural, a matter of following one’s interests and opportunities.</p>

<p>Many doctors of my generation are very upset at the changes (economic and otherwise) in the medical profession over the past 10-20 years. Many doctors wind up going into other fields, too, including real estate development. Not as many as lawyers, though.</p>

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<p>I am a former practicing attorney who has been a headhunter for attorneys for over 20 years. I don’t typically recommend that someone go to law school unless they want to be a lawyer. I decided after 3 years in “biglaw” that I didn’t want to practice and found pretty quickly that my law degree didn’t really open any doors to anything else - except legal recruiting. There are plenty of people who have degrees who don’t practice, but that road was not always easy and, by the time you factor in the cost in both time and money, was not the best route. Many of them could have ended up where they are without the law degree more quickly with a lot more money in the bank. I cannot tell you how many attorneys I have talked to over the years who have come to me trying to make the switch to business. Some do, of course, but most don’t. If they do switch, they often still have to start near the bottom of the totem pole. When I send attorneys in to interveiw for in house positions, I warn them to not mention a desire to switch to the business side - it is a non-starter for most in house legal departments. I don’t separate in house counsel from practicing law - they still practice law, but for one client and, if coming from a law firm, often take quite a significant pay cut for the honor. If you want to go into business, why not conisder an MBA? There is no reason to have a law degree to do financial planning or real estate work. Many of the laws regulating this work is governed by the individual states and any person of average intelligence can figure them out - you don’t have to be a lawyer. You are right that there are lots of attorneys unhappy with their jobs, but I’m sure that’s the case with any profession. The complaints range from having to do menial tasks, working very long hours, being treated very poorly by superiors, receiving little or nothing by way of mentoring, lack of partnership chances, unclear partnership track, or too much research and writing to the exclusion of all else.</p>

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<p>My advice is to not make the decision until you have to, and keep your options open as long as possible. Unlike some things like engineering, you don’t have to lock yourself into a law school or med school track just yet. There are no actual “pre-law” or “pre-med” majors. Law schools won’t care what you got your bachelor’s degree in (in fact, many like applicants from less-typical undergraduate backgrounds.) Medical schools also don’t care what your undergraduate major was, as long as you cover the required courses (chem, bio, etc.) So major in whatever you want (as long as the major will allow you to take the required pre-med courses) and in a few years, when it’s time to take the MCAT’s, decide if you want to go that direction. If not, take the LSAT and go that direction. Or by that time you may have decided to do something else altogether, which is good, too. There are happy and unhappy doctors and lawyers. It’s hard to predict which one you’d be at this point.</p>

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<p>I’m hoping you meant something like, “There is the trap that some people think that medicine and law are the only…” Lawyers are mostly “prestigious” only to other lawyers, and the “doctor as saint” is a myth that I think disappeared 20 years ago. They practice trades that are sometimes challenging, frequently mind-numblingly boring, and require at least some selling of the soul. They are certainly NOT the only trades that are prestigious or financially lucrative.</p>

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<p>I definitely appreciate all the advice everyone has given me. It’s been an eye-opener. In terms of getting an MBA, I would probably have to work for a couple of years (3-5, i assume) before actually going to business school. Frankly, I don’t like the idea of that; I want to be done with school after a certain amount of years, and I don’t really want to work some temporary job only to have to return for more schooling. That’s just me. (I know there’s part-time school and such, but in general, I wouldn’t want to return.)</p>

<p>When I say financial planning, I guess what I mean specifically is that some lawyers, such as tax attorneys, can and do give some means of financial advice. I’m not saying they deal actively with stocks and bonds, but I’m sure they’re familiar with trusts, estates, etc. both of which are financial in nature. </p>

<p>In addition, take for example McKinsey & Company, which Wikipedia lists as “a privately owned management consulting firm that focuses on solving issues of concern to senior management in large corporations and organizations.” In the article, under Recruiting is listed the following: </p>

<p>“Recently, McKinsey has diversified by soliciting candidates from graduate programs in law, medicine, engineering, science, and the liberal arts as well as by recruiting “experienced hires” from a variety of professional backgrounds including the military, law and medicine. Today, roughly half of McKinsey consultants with a graduate degree are not MBAs. These Advanced Professional Degree candidates (ADPs) attend a training program before starting their careers at McKinsey.”</p>

<p>So you see, it is not imperative to have an MBA or undergraduate degree in business to be able to work for such a firm. This is the point I’m trying to make here, which is that the benefits of a law school education can benefit in more ways than one. Of course, as many have been saying here, the goal of going to law school should be to become a lawyer. It’s not that I don’t <em>want</em> to be a lawyer; all I’m doing is thinking to the future and asking myself “What other atypical career options are there for lawyers who have worked in the typical law firm setting and would like to try something new?” </p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

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<p>“Pay is decreasing” for medicine.</p>

<p>If pay matters, pay is, in fact, decreasing for medicine. Compensation for medicine and law differs in important ways: first, most payment for professional medical services comes from third party payors (“insurance”) – doctors do not determine their fee schedule in the same way lawyers do; second, doctors see large numbers of patients whose care must be paid for at a reduced rate.</p>

<p>Don’t go into medicine unless you love medicine and taking care of patients.</p>

<p>See the Medicare Payment advisory indicating a 9.9% decrease in medicare compensation rates for 2008: <a href=“http://www.cms.hhs.gov/SustainableGRatesConFact/Downloads/medpacfinal.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cms.hhs.gov/SustainableGRatesConFact/Downloads/medpacfinal.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I have not read all the responses since it is so late. My simple advice is to do what you have a desire to do. My father was a surgeon, was truly gifted in medicine and loved it but was exhausted after 30 years of school and practice.</p>

<p>We have a friend whose son just finished his residency and has begun his medical practice. He recently told his dad that he hates being a doctor. He said that he did it because it was expected of him to become an MD, lawyer or engineer. Do what YOU want to do. If necessary, take the time to figure that out.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>“If pay matters, pay is, in fact, decreasing for medicine.”</p>

<p>But let me ask for perspective here…IF you are going “into” medicine, won’t you be making more money than you did before? The only folks this arguement fits are those who already are practicing medicine for some time. Their reinbursements are going down… a new doctor or med student hasn’t have that worry. Unless they were taking a pay cut to practice medicine.</p>

<p>In other words, you haven’t worked a day yet, why b itch about the pay? It’s still going to be more than you made before. You won’t go hungry. </p>

<p>" Compensation for medicine and law differs in important ways: first, most ayment for professional medical services comes from third party payors (“insurance”) – doctors do not determine their fee schedule in the same way lawyers do; second, doctors see large numbers of patients whose care must be paid for at a reduced rate."</p>

<p>I don’t think you understand how either group is compensated. Doctors can determine their rates. They can join networks or not. Joining a network might mean a lower compensation per patient, but more patients. Most MD’s have figured that nut out anyway, it’s called the follow visit. It’s short sweet and pays as much as the first. </p>

<p>A doctor can decide to stay outside network plans and charge what ever rate they wish. They do not have to settle for what insurance pays, the patient (even one’s who belong to a network plan) sign a little piece of paper that simply put acknowledges their responsibility for payment of the bill. The advantage to network type plans is usually you get paid faster. Which is better $500 in 30 days or $700 in a year? and you can roll that $500 over and over.</p>