<p>Don’t forget the state & fed gov’t—excellent, often incredibly substantive experience right out of law school & (for the most part) very liveable hours.</p>
<p>Kluge and cartera45: thank for your viewpoints. I probably shouldn’t just set my heart on one thing only. I’ll keep an open mind as I venture toward college. </p>
<p>Corranged: thank you for describing the different firm atmospheres. I guess when I think of a law firm, the first thing that pops up in my mind is the “typical” (or not) fast-paced, large, competition-driven firm. That’s not always the case, however. </p>
<p>Jolynne: nope, I’m a female! 
I would think that in some cases, such a high-powered career may be more taxing for lawyers who are mothers (and fathers, i suppose) than for those who aren’t. Of course, everyone controls stress differently, so I’m not implying in any way that lawyer mothers cannot handle both the work load + family obligations.</p>
<p>As a female attorney, what’s it like to be around men mostly? (I’m not saying there are always more men than women in every place where lawyers work; it’s just a generalization). Is it intimidating, empowering, or just plain normal? I ask this because I’ve perused some law firm websites in the past and I would say that when I click on a section like “Our Lawyers,” I see more men than women (I’m not surprised). I don’t want to make it sound like a big deal, but I’m just curious about this.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>gooduniforme—
Sorry for the assumption! </p>
<p>On the guy thing–there are pros & cons. Honestly–I really liked working w/guys very much (then again, I was in the gov, not in a cut-throat, competitive firm). Guys are usually clear, logical and less emotional (no disrespect to women intended!). </p>
<p>Then again–when it came to family issues, no one understood like other women. I’ve found when a woman has a child–that usually becomes number one – everything else fits around it. Guys more often are main providers so job is still number one.</p>
<p>I’ll just say I was very fortunate to work w/excellent attorneys (both men & women) who were most often very nice people as well. </p>
<p>I’m a stay at home mom/pt time attny now, and one of the things I miss a lot is my smart, male colleagues.</p>
<p>I know there is the cliche about either law school or med school, but I don’t understand why you should be limited to just those 2 options just because your parents have steered you there. Undoubtedly they think one of those options is what’s best for you, but surely they will respect your choice if you choose something else entirely? I would recommend that you wipe the slate clean, and give those 2 options no more weight than any other options. Then you can decide what YOU really want, without any pressure to choose from within those 2 options. In other words, put law school, med school, business, engineering, etc. all on equal footing and THEN decide what appeals to YOU.</p>
<p>Many fields still have more men than women. I was a software engineer for 18 years and was always 1 of only about 2 women amongst about 15 men, in every job I had. I think you are wise to consider the job availability from the perspective of being female, though - I don’t know anything about law but I would think in a field such as that, the differences would be more pronounced than in my field (since the field of law is by its nature highly competitive).</p>
<p>Also, are you good at paying attention to detail? and debate? and memorizing cases? My son is a formidable debater and never misses a detail or a loophole on anything, and we have often teased him that he’s pursuing the wrong field - he really should be an attorney! But he declined after his government class in which he had to memorize all those cases. It’s small details like that that might make the difference between being happy and not being happy, once you’re doing it on a daily basis.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Jolynne, haha, I had a chuckle reading your post. Very interesting indeed. Here’s the rather romanticized image I had in my head regarding men/women relations in a typical high-powered firm: a cut-throat firm where the men to women ratio is 4:1; the men feel they have to compete not only against each other, but against their female coworkers too. In a way, they feel they cannot be “beat” by a woman. I’m not saying this happens everywhere, it was just a stereotype, I guess, that I had imagined. But it all depends on the person, I guess. Not everyone in a law firm is competitive or intimidated, but I think that’s the image we’re often fed.</p>
<p>gooduniforme,
There’s definitely competition–I wouldn’t want to minimize that too much. I never went to a firm because I had a very young son while in law school & while working – I didn’t want to miss any more time away from him by starting the at a firm w/killer hours. It seems to me that yound people just out of a law school w/no children are the best ones suited (stamina-wise and family-wise) for the environment/hours of a ‘typical’ firm.</p>
<p>However, it would be good for you to talk to some female & male firm lawyers and get some opinions directly. The govt divisions I worked in were more collegial than competitive – I’ve been fortunate to know wonderful people.</p>
<p>When I was starting out at my first ‘real’ job out of law school I asked one of my professors (an attorney who taught part-time–he was incredible) what was the most important thing to remember as a female attny–and what I should avoid doing. He demurred & told me to ‘ask a female professor.’ I insisited–I wanted a guy’s perspective. </p>
<p>He told me – “Some female attorneys feel they must overcompensate for perceived weakness by becoming overly strident.” He saw that as a weakness, itself. I thought that was valuable and insightful.</p>
<p>—lealedragon–I wonder about your son & the govt class he took. There is some memorization in law school, but honestly, that’s not all there is. It’s principles (& analysis) more than specific cases that you have to know. And – really-- by the time you are practicing, you don’t have to memorize anything (I’m not kidding) because it’s all there at the touch of a key on Westlaw or Lexis (computerized law databases that every legal dept/lawyer uses).</p>
<p>The ‘joke’ about lawyers is that you don’t need to really know anything – you just have to know how to find it.</p>
<p>This summer I did some work in two areas (family & personal injury) that I had never even touched before. It took some research, but I was able to put out some very competitive work (we won). I don’t know how old your son is (sorry, if he’s practicing in another field and completely happy–then this is irrelevant!) – but maybe something to consider. He sounds like he might enjoy being an attny & would probably make a good one. :-)</p>
<p>Doctors can become great teachers also! Son had two very good teachers during his elem and HS years–A 6th grade math teacher who was trained as a pediatric radiologist(he took a huge salary cut!) and a HS chemistry teacher(who was trained as a pediatrician!). Both were excellent teachers and I think their passion was teaching, not practicing medicine. Try to find your passion!!</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification, Jolynne. I guess maybe I’ve been watching Law & Order too much! 
I got the impression those attorneys had to have all those cases memorized and readily available when needed.</p>
<p>In his college govt. class, some of the test questions were multiple choice and he had to match the right case with the corresponding legislation. He understood the issues but had trouble with the names, since names aren’t really meaningful. We all just assumed that there would be lots more of that in law school.</p>
<p>I’m admittedly quite ignorant on this, though. I’d be interested in knowing more about what law school is like, because he sure does seem like he’d make a great attorney and I’d hate to see him rule that out based on erroneous assumptions.</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight, Jolynne! I know you didn’t start in a typical firm right after law school, but I’ll ask anyway: from what other people have told me (whether it’s true or not), I’ve heard that the first 5 years or so at a typical firm will be “hell” for the recent law grad. “They’ll work you there very hard and make you do a bunch of stuff” kind of thing. Is this typical, have you ever heard anything like this?</p>
<p>If you want to make partner, you will have to keep billable hours UP! I don’t know if you would call the first five years “hell”, but the legal business is a service business–you sell your time. And, billable hours is one way of evaluating potential partner material.</p>
<p>thanks, notre dame AL!</p>
<p>gooduniforme,
It’s somewhat different now than it was even five years ago. My gf (a former attny at a big, city firm, now a pt time attny & mom) says things are totally different for her younger sis who just graduated from a good law school, did a federal clerkship and worked summers at a very nice DC firm. My friend said her sis’s firm (where she’s received an offer) is much different from the typical firm a few years ago. Partners are more generous w/compliments on evaluations and they are following through w/some reduced billable hr requirements, Sat office ‘face time’ is not mandatory, etc. etc.</p>
<p>I’d really try to meet up w/someone in a local law school in your area (maybe the admissions or career planning dept) and ask to be put in touch w/recent grads who are working in firms to talk to them about the lifestyle. Your undergraduate institution might also have a program linking students/recent grads up w/alumni in particular fields (e.g. corporate law). My undergrad does this – I’d talk to alumni services (even if you are still in school).</p>
<p>lealdragon–there’s some memorization in law school (& much more, for the bar exam at the end of it). But, the ones who do well are those who can extract principles from cases and apply them to different fact patters (that’s what you do when you work). That rote, multiple choice thing is not really anything you’d find in law school (as far as I’ve ever heard, anywhere). All exams are essay—applying and analyzing principles, w/some case law illustration.</p>
<p>Blind memorization won’t get you where you want to be in law school or in the legal field. If that wasn’t your son’s forte, that is no reason to be discouraged, if he’s got the other qualities you mentioned.</p>
<p>Can he visit a law school (or a few?) and sit in on a class or two? I found that really interesting. I used to be a reporter, also, so I’d see lawyers in action and found the intellectual gamesmanship and refined argument fascinating. Your son might want to talk directly w/some recent attorneys (people who have good attitudes about life and work , btw…!). :-)</p>
<p>Jolynne, thanks! I’ll definitely try to get in touch with some attorneys through my university. </p>
<p>On to another topic, which has been bugging me for days now. This concerns my major and future occupation. </p>
<p>As we all know, any major is ok for law school, be it finance, biology, economics or literature. What happens if I pursue my passion, let’s say it’s Spanish in this case (a hypothetical major) and then by my 4th year in college say “I don’t think law school is for me; let me try my hand at business.”</p>
<p>How am I possibly going to get a business-type job after college with a degree in Spanish ??? I mean … what would I tell the interviewer at Goldman Sachs, USB, or Morgan Stanley about my qualifications ??? </p>
<p>You see, it’s tough because I have to choose a major that not only interests me, but one that will guarantee a financially-stable job by the end of graduation (if I don’t end up going to law school). </p>
<p>I mean, if I know 100% that I’ll go to law school, then I’ll major in something that interests me and not necessarily wonder if it’ll get me a job straight out of college (right after college I’ll be in law school, so I won’t exactly need a job). </p>
<p>But what happens if I’m a few units away from graduation only to decide that law school isn’t for me … and lo and behold, I have a degree for which jobs are not easily found ? </p>
<p>Major in something business-related, you say! Ok, well, what if it’s not my number 1 passion? What if it’s in the top three but not number one? </p>
<p>Regardless, do I major in something business-related anyway, and then maybe double major or minor in another “passion” of mine? </p>
<p>I mean, my passion is languages, but that doesn’t necessarily mean I want to teach them or translate them. It’s my <em>passion</em> but I see it more of a career-builder and resume-booster than a straight-out <em>JOB</em>. For example, the language qualification would come in handy if I wanted to work overseas for a corporation, but how would I get to work in that corporation without any sort of business degree/experience? Get my point? </p>
<p>Anyway, any advice would be much appreciate. Thank you for reading.</p>
<p>College major doesn’t matter all that much for law school, and it doesn’t matter all that much for any other field, either (exceptions: engineering, possible architecture, grad school will require study in the same or a closely related subject, pre-med requirements, and a couple others). The most important thing for business is work experience, which most college students get through summer internships in areas of interest. An undergrad business major is of very little (if any) help in the long run, and good, ambitious students are usually better off pursuing a major in a subject of interest. Major really doesn’t matter all that much; what matters is what you do the rest of time through shadowing, internships, leadership positions, and/or work experience, your GPA, and any relevant test scores or other things needed for applications.</p>
<p>gooduniforme,
I think there has to be a balance. If you planning to attend college as if you are not going to law school (smart) then you are like every other college student who has to balance ‘passion’ w/marketable skills.</p>
<p>I don’t know what year you are in, but if you major in biz (maybe minor in your language) – possibly that would tell you in a year or so whether it’s something you want to pursue. If your thoughts are of working for Goldman Sachs, et al, then it sounds like biz is pretty much w/in your vision for yourself. </p>
<p>If you are having second thoughts, than I’d think the same process would apply as to evaluating law school/law as options – talk to some young women/men in the biz fields you’d consider (thru your university). Get some biz internships in the real world. See if it’s for you. And keep your known passion as a minor.</p>
<p>Just some thoughts–those in the biz field would probably have additional insights.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Keep studying that Spanish-a quite marketable skill, depending on what you want to do, and an edge in many jobs. Unless you’re already a proficient speaker, get yourself overseas at some point in your college career to gain fluency. Major in business, go somewhere where you can get some Spanish speaking business experience.</p>
<p>corranged, Jolynne, and great lakes mom, thank you all ! </p>
<p>Jolynne, I think you said it best: a major that both fits one’s passions and interests AND one that is marketable at the same time. Let’s be honest here: some majors are more marketable in the long run than others are, and college students should be aware of that if they want at least a minimal guarantee of financial stability in the future.</p>
<p>"Keep studying that Spanish-a quite marketable skill, depending on what you want to do, "</p>
<p>Sounds great, great lakes mom, but I don’t think I would qualify as a Financial Analyst with a degree in Spanish … which is why I think a language should be my <em>minor</em> … I’m thinking I should major in something business-related in case I don’t end up going to law school. That way, I’d have something to fall back on. </p>
<p>I think it’s important for college students to really think about their majors. Yes, major in what interests you, and yes, major in your passion. But please, major in something that can get you a job !!! lol. </p>
<p>We all need something to fall back on in case the MBA/JD/MD does not fulfill us later in life !</p>
<p>I really don’t think that’s true, Gooduniforme. Search online for the major internship programs in business. Very, very few of them will specify a major, and many will say that they’ll take any major." I have heard that JP Morgan and Bank of America are particularly fond of getting English majors, for example. When they hire you for an internship or out of college, they don’t expect you to know the job already. These businesses want to train you themselves so that you’re trained to do things exactly the way they want them done. Whether or not you’ve taken classes on “management” or whatever else isn’t going to matter if you’re a smart, capable person. You can learn necessary skills like that on the job; spend your undergraduate education taking advantage of your college and studying things you won’t be able to easily study after graduation.</p>