@MiddleburyDad2 I was trying to defend all majors and choices, including English at a LAC. Maybe that didn’t come across in my post #98, because my two kids chose engineering in a university setting? I was a liberal arts kid who took quite a bit of Art History, Government, French, English, Math, sciences, etc, and finally settled on Econ as a major in jr yr. I am a big proponent of choice and exposure in college, I guess. No one major seems “better” than another, just different.
And, regarding Fashion Merchandising and Fashion Design majors frowned upon earlier in this thread - Why? We all wear clothing, and lots of money is spent on it in our economy Seems like we need people who have artistic talent and business sense in that field.
“would you forbid your child from majoring in this if this is what they were interested in and wanted to study?”
I can’t think of anything legal that I would forbid a child from studying. That doesn’t mean all areas of study are equally valuable in my judgment. Anything narrowly focused on training for a particular industry would not be my preference for undergrad.
This thread was intended to be about overly narrow or specialized majors that give little or no advantage for the student or graduate in the targeted area, but could be disadvantageous if the student or graduate wants to go into some other area after college. It was not intended to be the usual H/SS versus STEM fight that keeps popping up here, but it seems that some posters are trying to pull it in that direction.
One argument I’ve seen advanced by some IRL is that the best way to start gaining meaningful experience for someone interested in fields is to go into those industries straight from HS or if possible, earlier and start actually start working in the industry from the ground up*.
Granted, this has become less realistic for the last few decades as more employers require a bachelors as the minimum credential for entry-level jobs that just a generation or two ago could have been had with a high school diploma or just a few years of high school education.
While I think a lot more research on this topic is required, it is obvious to me that some majors do a better job of it than others. In short, some humanities do a better job than other humanities…ditto for social sciences and STEM.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO "s comment about “pocketbooks” reminded me of this disturbing piece of work:
Interesting article worth reading but two comments. He compares the salaries of petroleum engineer with counseling psychologist. There is no counseling degree at the ndergraduate level, at least not one leading to licensure. I presume he meant psychology majors. A licensed clinical counselor (after a masters degree) will make a relatively low salary. A clinical psychologist (PhD or PsyD) will make considerably more. Confusing the undergraduate degree and two graduate routes is neither helpful to readers, nor critical thinking.
He concluded his article stating that salaries didn’t match with majors that best instilled critical thinking and called for wages to match up better. Wages are determined by supply and demand, period. Regulation might temper salaries, but the principles of economics still apply.
Unfortunately, in this day of managed care and third party controls over payments, this is often no longer true. Reimbursement rates to masters level providers is not significantly different from doctoral level providers, and both are insultingly low. Often plumbers, electricians and auto mechanics are paid at a higher hourly rate.
Sportsman, wages are NOT determined by supply and demand, period. Wages are distorted by a number of externalities- licensing requirements (interior decorators, manicurists, hair stylists) which serve to increase the cost of entering a field and creating a barrier- which props up wages; union memberships (extensive research done on the impact of unions on K-12 education… at its most cynical, some economists believe that the large teachers unions made a calculation that having MORE teachers (paying more dues to the union) was preferable to having fewer, more highly paid teachers (less dues to the union), gating strategies (an attorney who moves from NY to Florida cannot get their bar admission waived in-- although an attorney moving from Florida to NY can) which further restricts professional mobility, etc.
I could continue but you get my drift. It is way too simplistic to say that wages are determined by supply and demand. There is considerable academic AND empirical research which exists to explain why certain fields pay much, much more than you would expect- and why other fields pay much less… if it were only a question of supply and demand.
Pay levels are determined by supply and demand within the constraints like you described (licensing requirements, barriers to entry, and other restrictions on who can enter the market). Of course, these constraints can be considerable in limiting the participants in the market, often to the advantage of incumbent practitioners who have lobbying organizations or other control or influence on the barriers to entry.
The labor markets are relatively inefficient compared to other markets (spot fuel, agricultural commodities).
I am not an economist, but there is a lot of work being done to quantify and explain why supply and demand only explain a portion of the income spread in various fields.
Hate to hijack the thread… but I know a lot of new grads who believe that the job market operates like the markets they studies in econ 1 and then are surprised to learn (based on empirical evidence) that it doesn’t always function that way.
In general- neurosurgeons make more money than nursery school teachers. That’s a good example of supply and demand in the labor market at work. But there are lots of examples which are counter-intuitive.
“If one were to define “valuable” as majors that do the best job of teaching “critical thinking” skills, the following would be an eye-opener”
He’s only comparing fields of liberal arts to one another. I’m not worried about any area of the liberal arts (or anyone who chooses Kalamazoo College). I’m worried about people studying marketing or sports management.
He’s comparing fields of liberal arts and also seems to put a monetary value on “critical thinking.” There is plenty of critical thinking in other fields as well as in liberal arts. It just might be called primarily something else-like the scientific method in science or problem solving in engineering. http://classroom.synonym.com/relationship-between-scientific-method-critical-thinking-3743.html
I think the people bashing game design don’t actually understand what’s going on in the field and how incredibly fast it’s moving, or how wide and pervasive the applications of that degree are going to be. Don’t listen to grampie and grammy on this–it’s a young field and exploding in multiple directions.
But the point is, does a game design major have any advantage in the field compared to a computer science major (with appropriate in-major and out-of-major electives)? Should a student restrict his/her choice of school for a game design major versus the more widely available computer science major, and possibly appear less desirable to non-game employers later if s/he chooses to move out of that field?
Yes, @Hanna, you are correct. I was thinking more in terms of the need for critical thinking in medicine, nursing, etc.
In terms of sports management, I only know of one kid who went with that major . He was into multiple sports in high school and he probably thought it was a good fit for him. He was in this program - http://www.sc.edu/study/majors_and_degrees/sport_and_entertainment_management.php I was curious as to what he’s up to a few years out of college, so I looked him up. He is a Business Development Manager for a professional hockey team. If he’s happy, making a living and doing something he enjoys in something sports related, that seems like a good outcome. To @redpoodles point, sometimes a kid does need to take into consideration possible biases coming from well meaning parents, teachers, or college counselors. I have no idea if anybody tried to talk this kid I mentioned out of a sports management degree (the dad is a lawyer) , but it they did, it didn’t work.
@ucbalumnus In the past, the game design major did not have an advantage over a more general computer science degree. But in the future, yes, because of new pervasiveness of applications like Unity and other changes.
Just to back up what @sevmom posted about Sports Management degrees - the one kid I know who had that major now has a nice front office job with an NBA team and is living his dream. Another positive outcome.
Sports is a big business that starts in pre-school these days with t-ball and soccer leagues/camps. My kids started at age 4 for fun. Someone has to run these private and town activities. There are needs for sports managers all the way up the chain to pro. And, who runs all the fancy gyms around the USA? Some jobs will pay more than others, but doing what you love matters too.
One of our close family friends graduated with a Sports Mgmt major last year. He did a few unpaid internships to get experience, but eventually found an interesting job at a firm that does data analytics for college and pro baseball and football teams.