Legal and Computer Advice Nedded ASAP

Parent Cafe
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<p>I have a wonderful young college student working for me full time with a big huge problem and I am hoping some of you can add to my advice for her.</p>

<p>She is working full time for me in the pet shop – and going full time to community college in a combo of online and traditional courses. Finals are NEXT WEEK.</p>

<p>Her younger sister (age 14) has been using her computer – unauthorized by big sis – while my employee is working. Her sister has been approached by one of those predator types online – and now the police in their investigation have seized my employee’s computer.</p>

<p>All her files for her coursework – including papers, photos, lab reports, notes – etc are on the computer. The police say she may have the computer back in 2-3 MONTHS. Finals are NEXT WEEK.</p>

<p>This all happened while she was at work today – so no chance to do independent backups (which she knows she should have done, but all work has been backed up on the computer itself). Computer <em>access</em> is not an issue. Her files on her machine’s hard disk are the issue.</p>

<p>I have advised her to first, breathe. And second, go right to the college, starting with her advisor and as high up as she needs to go – for assistance with her options – incompletes if necessary. I think that she could use some legal advice, or at least an attorney to speak directly with the police about access to her schoolwork files.</p>

<p>What else should I tell her?</p>

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<p>Is there an ombudsman at the community college who could ask the police to make a copy of the study files she needs?</p>

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<p>To lock her sister in her room with gruel…she was only 14, but she had to have been warned so many times to NOT have those conversations with people…egad</p>

<p>Where the the parents in all of this? Go to the school, the district attorney, everybody and anybody to get copies of the work…be a thorn</p>

<p>As well, I am not sure what employee is studying, but is it in any way connected with any part of this event- children, justice, media, anything she can use to help with her classes, I mean it was an awful thing, but sometimes finding a horrid situation and getting a lesson out of it can be cathartic…while being )$#(%@ at little sister…</p>

<p>again WHERE ARE THE PARENTS? Are they not living in that home? Can they not advocate for their older daughter and get her records back?</p>

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<p>All I really know is that this wonderful girl (a bio major) was absolutely in tears at closing tonight over losing all her semester’s work. She got a phone call in the middle of the day today that her computer was being seized. </p>

<p>I <em>hope</em> the parents can advocate for her – but they are not US citizens and may not be very experienced in the ways of getting things done. This is why I am asking you all for some guidance in which way to go. The police at the door with the search warrant to seize the computer were obviously not helpful. My employee is a first generation college student, the family has been in the US for 6 years.</p>

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<p>Something isn’t quite right here. I am wondering why law enforcement would seize the actual computer, when it is ridiculously easy to track a person’s originals through IP addresses, email address protocols, etc. It’s even harder to imagine why they would need to keep it for an extended period of time. </p>

<p>I am not doubting the yong lady’s story exactly but are you sure there isn’t more to the story, or a different story altogether, that she perhaps isn’t comfortable telling you, or telling anyone?</p>

<p>In any case, the best way to get at the files is to get a rep from the college, if possible, and go down to the police station IN PERSON, and ask for a supervisor, a chief - not someone who merely has the authority to say “no”, while lacking the authority to say “yes”. Don’t try it via phone - it’s too easy for them to simply dismiss you. Much harder for them to tell you “no” in person.</p>

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<p>Absolutely possible. </p>

<p>I probably do not know the whole entire story … <em>she</em> may not know the whole entire story or <em>did not</em> know it this afternoon.</p>

<p>They actually told her that if she surrendered the computer voluntarily that she would have it back in 3 months – but if she insisted on them taking it via search warrant (which they apparently had in their possession) that it might take years to get it back.</p>

<p>They told her she could <em>not</em> have her machine long enough to download needed files because “they could not allow anything to potentially compromise the files”. Apparently there were emails that were sent and deleted by the sister and that’s what the cops are after.</p>

<p>She doesn’t know me well enough to know that I would have instantly given her permission to leave work to go take care of this problem if that would have helped.</p>

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<p>cnp55, this isn’t your fault, as it does not sound as if she would have been allowed to retrieve her work even if she’d left work immediately - I don’t know, I just don’t see the police hanging around to wait, although I could be wrong.</p>

<p>Something sounds very wrong here though - a search warrant? For deleted email? Since these things can be retrieved directly from ISPs and servers it just sounds wrong.</p>

<p>In any case, it sounds like a question for Kruge, Calmom, E & associates, so I stuck a quick post on the giant thread where hopefully one of them will see it - I simply do not know enough about police and the law - actually, I don’t know anything at all (about law), come to think of it.</p>

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<p>I know … it sounds absolutely bizarre.</p>

<p>It’s possible that there’s more to the story. Or that everyone is just jumpy with my.space incidents and other internet-related predatory stuff. </p>

<p>I saw the post on the Duke thread … and hopefully it will send some legal eagles this way.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone –</p>

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<p>It does sound odd. and okay, this is going to be a question you don’t have to answer here, but is something to consider…</p>

<p>are the parents here legally, what country are they from…</p>

<p>I ask,because these days, who really knows what is going on or is PERCEIVED to be going on</p>

<p>I am no trying to sound paranoid, but to seize a whole computer for an email, instant messenger, or myspace preditor seems excessive, unless they are looking for something else</p>

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<p>Legal with green cards. English is first language. And I have met the parents.</p>

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<p>I am so sorry to hear this. If you can be an advocate and see if she can contact school deans about the situation and find out what they can suggest on her behalf, as well as a lawyer about how she can proceed to approach the police, you are being more than an employer but a wonderful mentor. I hope the parents also can help her out here but I am not sure. I’m sorry to not be of help. </p>

<p>I saw the alert about help needed in Aisle four about computers and it caught my eye because my college soph has had a very low point today as well related to computers. Late in the day, everything, I mean everything, was lost on her computer. It may not be retrievable and tomorrow she is going to a data retrievable place, that’s all I know (she is also in the midst of finals, papers, and projects). Her situation doesn’t involve a crime but it is certainly a feeling of loss and is a big problem. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>CGM, that’s silly. Immigration, terrorism issues and anything related is handled by federal law enforcement; ICE would simply show up and take the people, not the computers. Besides, at this point, it matters not how or why they have the computer - they have it, period, and the young lady needs her documents. </p>

<p>CNP, until someone with real legal or law enforcement experience says something different, my original recommendation still stands. Who does the chief of police report to? The mayor? City council? I’d make contact as high as possible by phone to let them know I was on my way, then I’d collect blank CDs, an external disk, a floppy, whatever her computer takes, and head down there in person, and very respectfully but FIRMLY ask that she be allowed to download the documents she needs, or, that the police designate someone to download the documents while she stands there and says “I need this one and this one and this one” - in other words, she doesn’t even have to touch the computer, they can download for her. I cannot imagine it would take all that long, and I cannot imagine how they could say “no”. I am sure she can produce paperwork that documents that she really is a student and really does have finals pending.</p>

<p>If that doesn’t work, you could threaten to return with local press, but, that might make the police really mad, so that might not be the best course of action. </p>

<p>Soozievt, my D’s computer also crashed during finals, sophomore year. A full load of chem, physics, bio, plus labs. That was a nightmare, but I ended up buying her a new Mac laptop, which she loves, so in a way it was one of those “blessing in disguise” things. In a pinch, if your D gets into a real problem and the data retrieval process doesn’t work, the athletic department can and will help.</p>

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<p>The crime the police are investigating is the (alleged?) rape of a 14 year old friend of the sister by a 25 year old man the friend met on the internet. The sister was corresponding with the man (I think) as well as with her friend, using my employee’s computer.</p>

<p>So … it is bigger and badder than I first thought … but my employee is innocent in all this and she’s the one whose computer has been confiscated with all her school work for the whole semester on it. Much of her coursework is online – so it’s GONE with the cops.</p>

<p>Any additional ideas on where she should go?
What she should do?
What are her rights here?</p>

<p>And thanks everyone for your thoughts – I will pass them on to her.</p>

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<p>It is not silly, its jsut these days you never know…don’t call me silly… </p>

<p>To get to the classwork that is online…you can rent a computer…</p>

<p>If you put something out in your store, a notice, I would bet you could find someone with one she could use for the next few weeks</p>

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<p>CGM:</p>

<p>I gather access to A computer is not the issue. It’s access to HER computer that is.<br>
Right now, the student should contact her school administration and profs ASAP and explain the situation. She may be able to get incompletes until next fall or she may be able to get some alternative means of assessing her work. She might also be put in touch with classmates who could share notes with her (we cannot assume that she is friendly with classmates and knows how to contact them).</p>

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<p>Marite you are exactly right. Computer access is not the issue. </p>

<p>Among other things she is missing is the draft of the 8000 word paper for English class that has taken her 3 weeks to produce and is due next week. She tells me she will fail this course if she cannot hand in a paper.</p>

<p>I gave her the advice of asking for an <em>incomplete</em> rather than an F if possible … and going as high as possible in the college administration to get some assistance.</p>

<p>I also offered her an extra iMac of mine … if that would help.</p>

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<p>This beats “the dog ate my homework.” I really feel for this student. Is there no one high up in the police department who has a college-age daughter?</p>

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<p>cnp55, You might try contacting the school yourself on her behalf with a question about the rules for incompletes. She may be too fearful to do it herself? I know we don’t want to be helicopter parents, but helicopter friend/employer might be of some help here?</p>

<p>I suggest this because my S came down with mono during his finals week. He had no idea (or was too sick to think straight) that he could take Incompletes due to serious illness. So he took one exam with a raging fever and throat (luckily did well) and then I talked to him about the option of taking incompletes.</p>

<p>He had to go to his Dean to get a signed approval to take an incomplete and then go to each professor to sign off. All were cooperative and understanding. </p>

<p>A cooperative Dean might authorize the incomplete or might contact the police dept. about retrieving certain items off your hard disk. If the police have seized the computer, there’s got to be a computer savvy guy at the police dept who can copy your needed files onto a disk for you.
At least they have them on Law and Order and CSI. ;)</p>

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<p>Could the police themselves download the English paper while the young woman told them which file was needed? </p>

<p>I think a respectful–not angry–visit to the police supervisor might help.</p>

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<p>Ask the police if THEY can do the copying/downloads if they are worried about her deleting anything. They should be able to do so & would have complete control–explain that it is her coursework & finals are NOW (ask the school to verify as needed). Her friends & instructors can also help out by lending notes & info, as available.</p>

<p>It makes no sense why the cops can’t copy the info for her onto a hard drive & give her the info. She has the right to this info–even if she needs to buy a portable hard-drive or jump drive to store the info on.</p>