I’ve noticed over the last year many seemingly well educated adults (not just here, but in internet and print journalism) use “less” instead of “fewer”-- as in, “but that would result in less students being accepted to xxx university”
It’s happened so much lately that I wondered whether this is considered acceptable now? I’m still reeling from the change of past tenses of “dive” and “shine” to “dived” and “shined” instead of “dove” and “shone.” I missed that transition and had to be corrected by my children when they were in school.
Just wondering–I do understand that language isn’t static.
I hate it as well, and it strikes me as a sign of lazy writing/editing.
As to “dove” vs. “dived,” in the US “dove” is still considered the proper past participle of “to dive,” although from what I understand 200 years ago one would have used “dived,” so in some sense “dove” is a newer word. “Dived” is still used in much of the world, so some of what you’re seeing may be due to the globalization of language. “Dived” is also commonly used by scuba divers who find “scuba dove” to be awkward phrasing. Many people avoid this by simply saying “I went scuba diving” instead of having to choose between “I scuba dove” and “I scuba dived.”
I understand that this bothers those who are editors, but as a former engineer turned business professorial, none of these examples would even draw my notice. The point of communication is to convey a message. In most cases, the message can be conveyed even if the grammar is not textbook perfect. Common usage evolves over time. I don’t see the reason to get hung up on proper wording when everyone can understand what is being communicated. I realize that sometimes precise language is needed, such as in legal documents, but in most communication common usage is sufficient.
^^^Sorry, that’s just wrong. Yes, the message can be conveyed, but accuracy and correctness are important. Without them, misunderstandings are possible.
Ohhhhh…I hate this one. hate it hate it hate it. Precise language, indeed. It’s like using a stapler to hammer a nail – iit might get the job done, but it’s not the proper tool for the job
It happens all the time–incorrect word usage becomes the norm, even among folks who should know better. I hate it–yes, like nails on a chalkboard, but it seems like the only folks who care are editors and writers.
Accuracy and correctness in present day English grammar were set by fans of rigidity back in the 17rh century or so (they also introduced a bunch of Latin grammar rules and spellings that make no sense in English; for instance, “island” really should be spelt “iland”, as it was back in the day).
Languages evolve. Get use to it.
I’m sure Chauncer would be shocked by how everyone these days have bastardized his language. Does that mean we should all switch back to using Middle English?
New words might spring up while others fade away, but the rules of punctuation and grammar need to be followed and protected.
When people write with poor punctuation and grammar, misunderstanding and ambiguity often follow.
Punctuation and grammar are not just nominal conventions; they provide clarity.
As for usage:
New words and phrases are added and known words and phrases change, both of which affect common usage; that is inevitable. What makes it frustrating is that not everyone jumps onto the “new word” or “definition change” bandwagon at the same time. This is a large reason why people of different age groups, interest groups, and geographical areas cannot understand each other. In order for them to communicate with one another, there must be shared usage upon which to rely, or communication will fail. That’s why changes in usage must be questioned, especially when the changes involve words that have been in use for a long time, are well defined, and are used frequently.
This boils down to whether your approach to the English language is more descriptive or prescriptive. If you take a descriptive approach, English usage is what people actually use in speech and in writing. If you take a prescriptive view, you are always fighting a rear-guard action against changes.
My husband had a grandmother and mother who were the grammar police. We walk every night and the other day he went on a mini rant over less and fewer. I didn’t dare tell him I’m not 100% sure on the rule. I know it when I see it but if I’ve added to your stress over its misuse I apologize.
Please educate me on the proper way to decide between them.
But use “less” for things like time or distance, such as “I was waiting for less than two hours,” or “it’s less than ten miles to the crossroads.”
There are also idioms in which the rules may not apply, such as, “please answer this question in twenty-five words or less.”
I read that the “10 items or less” signs we see in the supermarket are not incorrect, because they (arguably) focus not on items but on the number itself. I’m not entirely convinced by this, though.