<p>Do you guys think that the Lesser Five (Columbia, Dartmouth, UPenn, Cornell, Brown) provide a better education than the top public schools like UCLA, UMich, UCB, etc? It seems that after HYSP, both the lesser five and the top publics compete for the 2nd tier spot. Which group wins out?</p>
<p>Well, if don’t live in the states of the top publics, then they’re really about the same.</p>
<p>If you live in those states, then you should go there. The undergraduate education quality is very close, and it costs less.</p>
<p>I would say neither group “wins out”. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. I would also add CalTech, Chicago, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern and maybe Rice to the group of private schools, UVA andmaybe UNC, UTA and Wisconsin to the state schools and a whole bunch of LACs. In the end, the list would look something like this:</p>
<p>BIG FIVE
Harvard University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Princeton University
Stanford University
Yale University</p>
<p>Small drop</p>
<p>Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Duke University
Johns Hopkins University
Middlebury College
Northwestern University
Pomona College
Rice University
Swarthmore College
University of California-Berkeley
University of California-Los Angeles
University of Chicago
University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Pennsylvania
University of Texas-Austin
University of Virginia
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Wesleyan University
Williams College</p>
<p>Small drop:</p>
<p>Bates College
Boston College
Brandeis University
Carnegie Mellon University
Claremont McKenna College
Colby College
Colgate College
College of William and Mary
Davidson College
Emory University
Georgetown University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Grinnell College
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
Macalester College
New York University
Oberlin College
Reed College
Tufts University
University of California-San Diego
University of Notre Dame
University of Rochester
University of Southern California
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
Vassar College
Washington University</p>
<p>There really is very little difference between any of those universities. In short, there are many awesome schools out there. A top student at any of those schools can pretty much accomplish anything.</p>
<p>Except Berkeley, the lesser five typically win the 2nd tier place. Also MC should be with placed together with HYPS if engrg/science is one of your interest.</p>
<p>Alexandre, girls’ schools don’t matter?</p>
<p>Zuma, I have issues with all-girl schools. But from an academic point of view, Wellesley and Smith, maybe even Bryn Mawr belong in the same group as Amherst, Bowdoin and Middlebury. Mount Holyoke is a notch below, with schools like Colgate and Macalester.</p>
<p>The advantages of going to a top school like an Ivy include an a great alumni network, a nurturing academic experience, good grad placement etc. At the Ivies you wont need to fight to get into classes and you will have alot more contact with your professors. </p>
<p>That said, a good student will do fine from any top school, private or public.</p>
<p>But Slipper, some publics have the same networking and placement opportunities, offer as much contact with faculty and the same nurturing environment as the lower ivies. Obviously, only a few state schools offer such benefits, but some do. </p>
<p>On the plus side for the large state schools, they usually have more school spirit, a broader spectrum of class offerings and more top ranked departments than some of the lower Ivies. Also, most great college towns (Ann Arbor, Austin, Bloomington, Boulder, Chapel Hill, Charlottesville, Gainesville and Madison to name a few) are generally occupied by state schools. Some of ivies are in not so great areas, especially Columbia, Penn and Yale.</p>
<p>In all seriousness, think about how you worded your post: “Lesser Five vs. Top Publics.”</p>
<p>Go to a school you think is at the “top” for you. Go to a school that makes you proud. If you truly feel that Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Penn are “lesser,” then don’t go.</p>
<p>Sure,</p>
<p>But at the top publics you will have to face registration issues, more competition for recruitment, and as someone who has gone to both a smaller ivy and a bigger one, I can speak from experience how much easier it is to form relationships with professors at smaller schools. Smaller schools tend to create strong experiences because so many students/ faculty at these schools get to know each other well. UT Austin, for example, is bigger than the six smaller ivies combined!</p>
<p>Also, many of the Ivies have a school spirit that goes way beyond sports teams. </p>
<p>Once again though, you can do fine from any top school.</p>
<p>for the individual it is fit, fit, fit.</p>
<p>Any of these schools could provide a great education for the right student. If you establish a good relationship with a department or even a single professor it can make a college work for you. As for networking, a great internship experience can help fill that need very well.</p>
<p>Some students get very upset the first time the find out that a math problem can have more than one solution and that each solution can be equally correct with the others. The same holds true for college.</p>
<p>Just goto the school with the best reputation, as long as you think you can do well there and you can afford it.</p>
<p>I think the difference between top publics vs lesser five is that i think the lesser five have more national recognition just because they are Ivies, and as for top publics they get the wow effect only in their state with the exception of berkeley. That’s just my opinion so don’t bash me guys… And also, top publics also do have their crop of not so ivy material, just because the student population at a public school will mostly come from it’s state.</p>
<p>Hm… I don’t agree that schools like Wisconsin, Texas, or Carleton deserve to be above Georgetown. I think that Georgetown deserves to be in that 2nd category.</p>
<p>Alexandre,</p>
<p>“But Slipper, some publics have the same networking and placement opportunities, offer as much contact with faculty and the same nurturing environment as the lower ivies.”</p>
<p>Which publics are you refering to?</p>
<p>For thousands of lucky New Yorkers, Cornell has public colleges at discounted rates…absolutely a great deal if you can get in.</p>
<p>Calidan, the lines that separate each group is so thin that schools in one group could just as easily belong in the group above or below. </p>
<p>FountainSiren, Michigan is a state school that has similar networking and placement opportunities, offer as much contact with faculty and the same nurturing environment as the lower ivies. I think UVA is also similar in that respect.</p>
<p>Would add schools like Holy Cross and Bucknell to the same list as Bates and Colby. Also Boston College doesn’t have the academic tradition to be on that list-BC was a commuter school until the 1980’s and only produced its first Rhodes winner a year ago.</p>
<p>If you’re going to put schools like Middlebury, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, and Carleton in the second group, then I think Grinnell, Haverford, Vassar, Georgetown and a few other belong in that group. They’re at least as good as those schools.</p>
<p>Most of the schools in the second group ain’t no small drop from HYPSMCt.</p>