<p>Slipper, I think you are missing many important points. </p>
<p>First and most important is the philosophy behind my groupings. I have said this a hundred times, I do not group universities according to their individual properties but rather, as institutions overall. If you wish to group them according to individual properties, I would put private research universities in ojne group, LACs in another group and state schools in yet another group. That would make sense too, since different people like different styles. But the point of grouping them according to overall quality is for students to pick according to quality and then, decide on their own which style of school suits them better. Obviously, Harvard and Darmouth have more in common than Harvard and Michigan. And Michigan and Wisconsin have more in common than Michigan and Dartmouth. But Harvard is a better overall university than Dartmouth and Michigan is a better overall university than Wisconsin. In the end, all 4 are awesome universities, a a top student at any of those 4 schools is going to succeed in life…provided they work hard enough.</p>
<p>Second, you mention the schools’ respective endowments. Dartmouth at about $2.5 Billion and Michigan at $3.5 Billion. Actually, today’s figures are slightly different, with Michigan having reached the $4.5 Billion mark and Dartmouth still below the $3 Billion mark. Furthermore, if you got back 15 years, to 1990, Dartmouth’s endowment was $600 million to Michigan’s $500 million. That’s right, Michigan’s endowmen is far outpacing Dartmouth’s. In short, Michigan’s endowment has grown by 900% in the last 15 years, compared to Dartmouth’s 500%. There is no sign of Michigan slowing down either. The reason for this modern trend is that historically, Michigan did not see the need of having a large endowment because it relied so heavily on the state. However, in the last 15 years or so, Michigan has decided to take matters in its own hands. Furthermore, and I think I mentioned this before, Michigan’s budget (not including the medical school) is $2.4 Billion. Dartmouth’s Budget (also not including the medical school) is roughly $600 million. It is true that Michigan is 6 times larger than Dartmouth, but even then, for a big school, I think Michigan does pretty well there…especially when you take economies of scale into consideration. So be careful when you make sweeping claims that students at Dartmouth are give more grant money or better research opportunities. That is actually incorrect.</p>
<p>Third, you say that Michigan has a 15:1 student to faculty ratio. That may seem like a lot, but Michigan still manages to have classes that are not much larger than those at Dartmouth or Cornell. Last time I checked, 50% of Michigan’s classes had fewer than 20 students, compared to 56% at Dartmouth and 45% at Cornell. Roughly 15% of Michigan’s classes have more than 50 students, compated to 9% at Dartmouth and 22% at Cornell. So I would say that Michigan holds its own in that domain.</p>
<p>Fourth, you seem to only look at selectivity. Michigan obviously cannot be more selective than the Ivies. But its student body can still be excellent. I see that Newmassdad and you discussed Michigan’s honors college. The Honors college includes roughly 30% of the incoming student body, is made up of students with SAT ranges between 1400-1600 and with GPAs hovering in the 4.0 range and students usually graduating in the top 3% of their high school class. In short, students in the honors program are actually equal to the top half of the student body at most of the Ivies. And another 40% of the Michigan student body have SAT scores in the 1250-1400 range. Those students are similar to the bottom half of the students at some of the Ivies. In other words, as I have stated before, at Michigan, roughly a quarter to a third of the students are weaker, but the remaining 70% or so of the students are certainly capable of competing with students at the smaller private schools.</p>
<p>Fifth, if you insist on talking about selectivity, I will insist on talking about academic rankings of undergraduate departments. And yes, since every student takes about 50% of her/his classes in his own major (or prerequisits to that major), the quality of an undergraduate department is important and can be measured. With the exception of Chemistry, each and every single department at Michigan is ranked among the top 15 in the nation…and Chemistry is still ranked among the top 25. Those are undergraduate rankings mind you. No school in the country, save maybe Stanford, Harvard and Cornell, is as well rounded as Michigan. If you take a class at Michigan, no matter the field, you are going to have a world class professor teach it and a bunch of very driven and talented students (who picked Michigan over other top universities precisely because the department at Michigan was ranked near the top) competing for the As and the Bs (50% of Michigan’s grades are Cs or worse).</p>
<p>Sixth is another very important topic; placement. Whether we are talking about placement in industry or into graduate programs, Michigan holds its own. 1,500 companies come to recruit Michigan’s campus annually. Keep in mind that Cornell (600), Harvard (600), Yale (200) and Dartmouth (150) together have roughly 1,500 (Brown, Columbia, Princeton and Penn were not covered by the Newsweek report). According to verified statistics, average starting salaries for Michigan undergrads are equal to those of Penn and Cornell undergrads. As far as graduate school placement goes, Michigan has similar results to the larger Ivies (Cornell and Penn). </p>
<p>Finally, school spirit and networking. I personally think that no school in the World can claim to be better than Michigan in this regard. You say that 80% of your class attended the 5 year reunion? Well, at Michigan, alums return to Ann Arbor several times a year to hang out, go to the art fair, attend football or Hockey games, go to a classical music concert at Hill Auditorium, one of the country’s top 3 music halls etc… Who do you think fills the Michigan Stadium with over 110,000 rabid Wolverine fans 6-7 Saturdays each year, every year? About half of those people are Alums. And what do you think those alums do that entire weekend? That’s right, they hang out with dozens of their past classmates. I do so myself at least once a year, and I live on a different continent. Obviously, Michigan is a huge school, so you will never get 80% of the class together in one place at once…and even if you did, most of us would not know each other. But I can guarantee that the group of friends Michigan students make at Michigan is worth just as much as the group of friends one can make at any university in the World. The Michigan alumni base is one of the most successful and wealthiest, even if you look at it from a per/capita point of view…and we are very loyal to each other.</p>
<p>In short Slipper, as insulting as it is to you that a public university is as good as an Ivy League, I am afraid it is true.</p>