Let the Great World Spin - August CC Book Club Selection

[Mary13]

<p>

@BUandBC82

I hadn’t even noticed Corrigan’s initials being J.C.; interesting. I liked his character and would have enjoyed reading more of his story.

</p>

<p>I liked Corrigan, too. He was one of my favorite characters. I wonder if one of the reasons he is so appealing is because we are never exposed to his point of view. We don’t get inside his head, so he remains a mystery. I think that’s why many of the novel’s characters are attracted to him: They don’t quite understand him, can’t grasp exactly why he does what he does—and in a certain way the reader feels the same blend of admiration and fascination. </p>

<p>

@crzymom

I am a bit embarassed to admit this, but until the book was finished I thought it was written by a woman. I paid no attention to the author’s name so I was taken aback. Some books that are written with a woman’s voice by a man eg. Wally Lamb I find really lacking.

</p>

<p>I felt comfortable with the chapters written from the woman’s perspective, although their experiences were so far removed from my own, it’s hard for me to know how a “real-life" woman would act in similar circumstances. I listened to an interview with Colum McCann where that subject came up, particularly in reference to Tillie’s chapter. McCann took no credit for it—just said that Tillie came alive of her own accord. This is a familiar refrain from authors. (I’ve posted this William Faulkner quote before, but to me, he summed it up best: “It begins with a character, usually, and once he stands up on his feet and begins to move, all I can do is trot along behind him with a paper and pencil trying to keep up long enough to put down what he says and does.”)</p>

<p>The interview with McCann is worth listening to, if you have about 20 minutes. It’s here:<br>
<a href=“KCRW 89.9FM | Music, NPR News, Culture Los Angeles | KCRW”>http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/bw/bw090910colum%20mccan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

@teriwtt

I’ve still got 35 pages to go, so I’m hoping to join in the discussion tomorrow!

</p>

<p>Looking forward to hearing from you!</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@CBBBlinker

But it was fascinating to see how the author wove everything together, especially at the end.

</p>

<p>This is a book that merits re-reading. There are so many small details that become meaningful only with hindsight. A random example: In Lara’s chapter (“A Fear of Love”), there is a brief scene where she stands by the elevator in Corrigan’s apartment building, on her way to deliver Corrigan’s possessions to his brother: “A large middle-aged lady in a floral-patterned dress waited at the elevator. She kicked aside a used needle with a deep sigh. It settled into the corner, a small bubble of blood at its tip. I returned her nod and smile. Her white teeth. The bounce of imitation pearls at her neck.”</p>

<p>Only later did I realize, that’s Gloria.</p>

<p>And along those same lines…I feel like I missed a connecting piece at the end of the book. Since it gradually became clear that in every chapter, everybody is somebody, I feel like Jaslyn’s Italian doctor in the final chapter must have had a link somehow to an earlier character or event. At one point, Jaslyn asks the doctor why he’s in New York and he says:</p>

<p>

I’m buying a chess set…It’s a handmade thing. There’s a craftsman on Thompson Street. It’s a bit of an obsession of mine. It’s for my son, actually. It’s a special Canadian wood. And the guy is a master…”

</p>

<p>I feel like “the guy” has to be someone we met earlier. Or am I grasping at connections where none exist?</p>

[ignatius]

<p>Interestingly, critiques of Let the Great World Spin center around both the different voices in the book and the women characters.</p>

<p>From The Wall Street Journal:</p>

<p>

The sweep of the city recedes as each voice starts to sound as if it had been nursed in the same creative-writing seminar: “He knows my story. It is contained within this moment” (a Latina nurse). “The city lived in a sort of everyday present” (a Jewish judge). “Jigsaw walked into three neat bullets” (a streetwalker remembering an incident; she also muses about the Persian poet Rumi). “What fist he might walk into” (the monk’s brother). Unforgivably, to a Noo Yawk ear, Mr. McCann bungles “Fuhgeddaboudit,” omitting the essential “a” (yes, he actually has a character say “fuhgeddboutit”). Pointillists of the psyche are like comedians who do impressions. Pretty good isn’t good enough.

</p>

<p>From Pop Matters:</p>

<p>

In the brash and shouting working girls who come and go from Corrigan’s unlocked apartment (he insists to Ciaran that they simply need a place of refuge, no matter how much their pimps abuse him for interfering), McCann finds his gallery of characters that will link readers to the rest of the novel to follow. But while these women (particularly a wounded mother-daughter team) provide much of the dramatic muscle for the tragedy and happenstance that is to come (a traffic death, court proceedings, orphans, and loss), McCann isn’t able to find as strong a voice for them. At least a partial reason for that seems to be that McCann simply couldn’t locate as gut-level a connection with them as he did with his Irish characters, or Claire Soderberg, the wealthy judge’s wife who dominates the book’s later chapters. But the reason could also be that they simply got lost amidst the book’s continual shifting of perspective and setting.

</p>

<p>

The representations of his women tend particularly toward cliché, being mostly wounded sufferers, good girls and whores alike.

</p>

<p>Admittedly, when I finished the book, I looked to reviews to see if I was the only one bothered in a few instances. One knock-me-out-of-the narrative instance occurs in Claire’s apartment when the other mothers come to visit and the narrative slides into a “mean girls” routine. Not for a minute can I see a small group of women who draw purposefully together to help each other through a numbing loss making fun of Claire and giggling when she leaves the room like a pack of middle school girls out to establish social dominance. Maybe if the women had known each other since middle school, but they hadn’t; and maybe if the women hadn’t been the type to search each other out to mourn together, but they had. (Okay I’m a bit fussy, but my heart broke for Claire - and the whole “mean girl” episode bothered me until - until I just decided that it bothered me because it was so “off”.)</p>

[ignatius]

<p>

There are so many small details that become meaningful only with hindsight. A random example: In Lara’s chapter (“A Fear of Love”), there is a brief scene where she stands by the elevator in Corrigan’s apartment building, on her way to deliver Corrigan’s possessions to his brother: “A large middle-aged lady in a floral-patterned dress waited at the elevator. She kicked aside a used needle with a deep sigh. It settled into the corner, a small bubble of blood at its tip. I returned her nod and smile. Her white teeth. The bounce of imitation pearls at her neck.”</p>

<p>Only later did I realize, that’s Gloria.

</p>

<p>Yeah, I recognized Gloria immediately. Actually, I suspected when Claire meets with the moms in Gloria’s apartment in the Bronx that Corrigan and the working girls live there. So when Lara visits, it confirmed my beliefs.</p>

<p>Re the ending of the book: I hope the Italian guy connects some way, because I truly felt the author rambles at that point. Terrible to say and I may be booted out of the book club, but I felt that McCann needed to meet his contracted 350 or so pages and just wrote til he got there. Not to say that some of the last wasn’t moving, just that a good bit of it pulled me away from the narrative rather than into it.</p>

<p>Since I sound negative, let me say that I’m glad I read the book and think the choice a good one. I do plan to pass it on to my husband who lived in NYC during that period of time. I think the sense of time and place strong and want to see if his reaction matches booklady’s; bet it does.</p>

[Booklady]

<p>

One knock-me-out-of-the narrative instance occurs in Claire’s apartment when the other mothers come to visit and the narrative slides into a “mean girls” routine. Not for a minute can I see a small group of women who draw purposefully together to help each other through a numbing loss making fun of Claire and giggling when she leaves the room like a pack of middle school girls out to establish social dominance.

</p>

<p>Hmm. That actually felt very true to me. Remember that the other women - except Gloria - are themselves feeling nervous in Claire’s upper-middle-class surroundings. Gloria says (p. 290) “The others were giddy with Park Avenue, I could tell.” They aren’t mean to her face, they just don’t quite know what to make of her and the way she lives, perhaps feeling that all her money has insulated her in some way from her son’s death, which of course it hasn’t.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@ignatius

Terrible to say and I may be booted out of the book club, but I felt that McCann needed to meet his contracted 350 or so pages and just wrote til he got there.

</p>

<p>Sorry, ignatius…membership is lifetime, no exceptions. We have a Hotel California-like hold on you–“You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave…” muuhahahaha…:)</p>

<p>Anyway, yes, I hope someone finds a connection with the doctor or the chess set crafter, or else I would agree that McCann’s writing went off-track at that point. I don’t agree, however, with the critic who wrote, “The sweep of the city recedes as each voice starts to sound as if it had been nursed in the same creative-writing seminar.” Ouch. Cheap shot, WSJ. To me, the voices of, let’s say, Claire and the street kid-photographer Fernando, were worlds apart. I looked forward to picking up the book and reading the next chapter (unlike The Elegance of the Hedgehog, for example, where although I was very glad I read the book, I felt a little like I was eating vegetables that I knew were good for me).</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>This book haunts me, as I stated before I cried many times while reading it. </p>

<p>Mary great first post, and wonderful link to Mccann’s interview. The interviewer,Silverblatt, was eloquent in his description of this book, so much so that Mccann’s says he "felt shivers’.</p>

<p>Interesting that Mccann says this is a book about 9/11, so I guess that means it must be set in NY. I hope readers, from other parts of the country, who were unfamiliar with NYC in the 70’s can relate to the book, as well, as those of us who experienced those times.</p>

<p>I am intrigued by CBB’s assumption that this was written by a woman, and Igantius’s point of view that Mccann failed to capture women in a fair way. </p>

<p>Regarding Ignatius’s point that the women in Claire’s chapter, seemed so caddy, as if they had been friends since middle school.
Don’t you think their shared loss probably bonded them as closely as “friends from middle school”, and their behavior, as unkind as it was, reflects the intimacy they share. </p>

<p>I felt that segment, brought out Claire’s isolation, her alienation from everyone, except of course, Gloria. </p>

<p>During the Interview, linked by Mary13, Mccann, and Silverblatt, speak about this being so much about women. The women who lost their sons, the women on the streets.
Mccann even mentions that Corrigan, was very feminine in his approach- nurturing, caring, wanting to heal the world.
And, Mary13, you are so right, that Corrigan’s religious views were not exposed, it was who he was as a young boy, caring about the poor. </p>

<p>Finding the beauty …finding grace in everyday.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>I think McCann’s attention to small details are one way that he expresses the beauty and grace in everyday, as SJChessMom put it. When I was reading the book, I did not feel that McCann was just filling pages with extraneous words, but was leaving a trail of clues about the inner lives of his characters. I looked up the Rumi poem, for example, from which Tillie quotes one line to Ciaran (“Whosoever brought me here will have to take me home”). I’m not much of an analyzer of poetry, but it captures a lot of Tillie for me, and also foreshadows her end:</p>

<p>

Whoever Brought Me Here</p>

<p>All day I think about it, then at night I say it.
Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing?
I have no idea.
My soul is from elsewhere, I’m sure of that,
and I intend to end up there. </p>

<p>This drunkenness began in some other tavern.
When I get back around to that place,
I’ll be completely sober. Meanwhile,
I’m like a bird from another continent, sitting in this aviary.
The day is coming when I fly off,
but who is it now in my ear who hears my voice?
Who says words with my mouth? </p>

<p>Who looks out with my eyes? What is the soul?
I cannot stop asking.
If I could taste one sip of an answer,
I could break out of this prison for drunks.
I didn’t come here of my own accord, and I can’t leave that way.
Whoever brought me here, will have to take me home. </p>

<p>This poetry. I never know what I’m going to say.
I don’t plan it.
When I’m outside the saying of it,
I get very quiet and rarely speak at all. </p>

<p>Mewlana Jalaluddin Rumi

</p>

[PATheaterMom]

<p>Thanks for posting the poem Mary13!<br>
I remember visitng one of my friends in NYC in the early to mid eighties. It was a very different Times Square then
I wanted to find out what happened to Corrigan’s gf in later years.</p>

[CBBBlinker]

<p>

I am intrigued by CBB’s assumption that this was written by a woman

Not a big deal, but that wasn’t me!</p>

<p>There were a few “loose ends” in the story/character connections. What about the graffiti photographer? I haven’t decided how I feel about not having everything neatly tied up at the end of the book – I guess it doesn’t bother me enough to change my overall opinion, but still …</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>^^^ whoops, sorry CBB, I see that is is Crzymom who made the statement that she thought the book was written by a woman.</p>

<p>I bring this up as a point of discussion, that Crzymom, and others, probably think that Mccann effectively captured the female tone, attitude and voice.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Ignatius points out that many of Mccann’s female characters fit into the Madonna/ Whore categories. </p>

<p>CBB-Mccann says in one of the audio interviews, that life is messy and he didn’t want to shy away from this, and therefore, purposely didn’t tie up all the loose ends. </p>

<p>After listening to Mary13 audio link, I looked for more online interviews and found this Diane Rehm, NPR link, and it may be in that interview he addresses the messy ending. </p>

<p>FYI-somewhere I read that he had an entire chapter about chess, which his editor, or someone counseled him to take it out because it was boring for non-chess players. As someone who has read enough chess analysis, be thankful that chapter was omitted. If you didn’t like the Phenomonology in Hedgehog, I am certain you would have hated a chess chapter.
Remember Mccan’s elderly wheelchair man was former chess master, and the Italian photographer planned to buy a chess set for his son. So perhaps, the Italian character would have been better developed with that missing chapter? </p>

<p>[Audio</a> Player | The Diane Rehm Show from WAMU and NPR](<a href=“Diane Rehm”>Diane Rehm)</p>

<p>I really wanted more information about Corrigan’s girlfriend.
I loved that Corrigan helped the prostitutes without any judgement of them. Bringing them coffee, allowing the use of the bathroom, such lovely gestures. Daniel Berrigan, Mccann’s inspiration for Corrigan, dedicated himself to change the world, stop the war machine and did things on a grand scale.
Corrigan,however, dedicated his life as a “worker priest” to helping change lives in the smallest of ways. Making sure an elderly wheelchair woman is protected from the sun, giving the grumpy, Jewish man a beer, bringing the “girls” to him for some pleasure.</p>

<p>Did anyone else feel that Corrigan’s relationship with Jazzyln, was hard to accept? Was he a father figure, subconscious attraction?</p>

<p>I loved that he cared about Jazz’s children,reminding us that these prostitutes are mothers, or grandmothers with children at home. </p>

<p>Corrigan and Jazz died, resulting in the salvation of Jazz’s daughters. </p>

<p>I enjoyed Corrigan’s character through the eyes of Ciaran, who constantly questioned his motivation, a duality that Mccann maintained with many of his characters- Lara, vs selfish, rich boyfriend- Gloria vs Claire, Judge (authority) vs Tightrope walker (rebel).</p>

[CBBBlinker]

<p>^^^ SJChessMom, I’ll take your word for it about the chess chapter being better left out! Wasn’t there a chess set in Josh’s room? (Do I have the name right – Claire’s son?)</p>

<p>I’m starting to think I could reread this book and easily find many more “connections.”</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>^^ CBB, yes, I think you are right about the chess set in Josh’s room.
I did reread about half the book to refresh my memory for the discussion, and as Mary13 said the book is very re-readable. </p>

<p>This book captures a time not so long ago- 1974 (I’m older than many of you, I was in college at the time), but so much has changed, and that era, the 70’s, seems like “history” now.</p>

<p>Pre-PC and internet age,
Pre -Aids, Pre-Crack,
Pre-cleaned up NYC, with Disneyesque Times Square.
Pre- 9-11</p>

<p>But, replace the VietNam war with the Afghanistan/ Iraq Wars,and some things never change.</p>

<p>And, having just returned from Chicago and Philly, I can attest to the plight of the homeless people, destitute, and mentally ill who roam the richest country’s streets. Tragic.</p>

<p>Some things never change, and the world just keeps spinning, but I know there are the Corrigans and Glorias and Claires of the world out there, and feel hope, uplifted.</p>

<p>I know our society has improved in the last 3 decades, look at our current President, a product of the commitment of higher education’s gatekeepers to offer opportunities to more.</p>

<p>Claire’s chapter about her son’s loss, in a meaningless, misguided war, was heartbreaking. The tension of her trying to hold, to stay stable, to grip with all her might was palpable.
And, how beautiful that she was not alone as she lay dying, that Jaslyn is the one to bring some LIGHT to Claire-some LOVE. </p>

<p>Claire,lost her son to the war, but through her loving actions,she gained someone who would care enough to be with her during her final hours.</p>

<p>“The curtain falls back but still a corridor of brightness has opened up on the carpet, and Jaslyn steps to the bed again, takes off her shoes, drops them. Claire parts her lips ever so slightly. Not a word, but a difference in her breathing, a measured grace.” pge 349</p>

[alwaysamom]

<p>

I liked Corrigan, too. He was one of my favorite characters. I wonder if one of the reasons he is so appealing is because we are never exposed to his point of view.

</p>

<p>I think that is one of the reasons, Mary. We have a wonderful introduction to Corrigan and the way he thinks in a very early passage in the book - </p>

<p>

What Corrigan wanted was a fully believable God, one you could find in the grime of the everyday. The comfort he got from the hard, cold truth - the filth, the war, the poverty - was that life could be capable of small beauties… he consolded himself with the fact that, in the real world, when he looked closely into the darkness he might find the presence of a light, damaged and bruised, but a little light all the same. He wanted, quite simply, for the world to be a better place, and he was in teh habit of hoping for it. OUt of that came some sort of triumph that went beyond theological proof, a cause for optimisim against all the evidence." p. 20.

</p>

<p>

This book haunts me, as I stated before I cried many times while reading it.

</p>

<p>SJmom, it had the same effect on me. I think this is due to several things, for me. My favorite books are those that are character driven and those that employ a beautiful use of words and language. I hit the jackpot with this book on those two counts. McCann’s ability to draw such distinctive characters, individuals who you could so clearly see, hear, smell and feel, is substantial. His use of language, though, is what brings me back to this book again and again. This is a book that should be read while sitting in a comfy chair, in a quiet spot, and read slowly so that each sentence, paragraph and chapter can be savored. Immersing myself in this book is like a trip back in time to the NYC of the 70s. I remember those days well, and having lived in the city, and visited several times a year since then, I can say that the portrayal is an accurate one. Setting the stories in another city would have changed the book entirely, in my opinion.</p>

<p>I think that McCann’s decision not to tie up all loose ends and storylines into neat packages was a good one. It would not have been true to the nature of the book itself. Reading this book felt, to me, like it does when you visit NYC for a few days and are immersed in the city’s life, participating in things that are different from your everyday existence, and then when you leave to go home, all that you’ve seen and experienced will continue after you’re gone. I visit several times a year and I always feel this way when I am on the way to the airport, or the day after I get home, imagining the things I did and the people I saw, and the fact that it was all still going on without me.</p>

<p>This was a book that, while reading it, I constantly wanted to be quoting passages to someone. I often wished that someone was reading it at the same time and pace as I was so that I could have discussed it as I read. I do urge those of you who are considering reading it again to do so. You will undoubtedly see things that you missed the first time and have those “aha!” moments.</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>^^^excellent description Alwaysmom of why you posted this earlier in this thread-</p>

<p>Alwaysamom posted :
“it’s one of the best books I’ve ever read and I’m an avid reader who reads about 75-100 books a year. Beautifully written! I’ve read it twice and have bought a copy this year for everyone I know who loves to read. Enjoy!”</p>

[whatever4]

<p>Based on descriptions of the book and reading the book’s dust cover in stores, I had absolutely no interest in reading this book. Tight-rope walker, 1970s New York City – absolutely no appeal for me. However, I had gone through quite a few books, knew this one was fairly highly rated by readers, and finally reluctantly decided to “sample” the first chapter on my Kindle – and got hooked. I devoured this book, particularly enthralled by Corrigan, and then like some of you (it seems), I was disappointed by the ending.</p>

<p>I know that real life is random and full of loose ends and most things seem to have no meaning. But this book is fiction, not real life. I expected more. To me it felt like the author didn’t know quite how to end the story, so he just rambled for a while after the accident and then stopped. He should have pulled things together better better at the end. Maybe some sort of acknowledgement of what all had transpired from Corrigan’s brother or girlfriend, or from Jazz’s children or Gloria or Claire?</p>

[ignatius]

<p>

@Mary13

I don’t agree, however, with the critic who wrote, “The sweep of the city recedes as each voice starts to sound as if it had been nursed in the same creative-writing seminar.” Ouch. Cheap shot, WSJ. To me, the voices of, let’s say, Claire and the street kid-photographer Fernando, were worlds apart.

Obviously the WSJ reviewer found fault with McCann’s voice. Here’s another quote from the same review:

Meanwhile, phrasings waft in from the wrong side of the Atlantic. Would a Missouri-born grandchild of a slave really say, “I was at university in Syracuse”?

I subconciously picked something up along those lines (WSJ criticism) myself, as at some point while reading, I thought: “This man (McCann) IS Irish.” My thought surprised me because I knew McCann graduated from the University of Texas (B.A. in Literary Studies – I think). Anyway, I looked him up and sure enough – born and bred in Ireland. Ciaran’s voice – and through him, Corrigan – just fit. So yeah maybe the WSJ reviewer pegs that McCann’s voice resonates throughout the story – beyond the characters of Corrigan and Ciaran. But for me, other than the flash “This guy is Irish” I read happily onward. I paid less attention to the “voice” of each character than I did his/her piece of the story – the puzzle piece, if you will – that each told. In other words, I read without really noticing the “creative-writing seminar” and “wrong side of the Atlantic” phrasing – though now that it’s mentioned Gloria’s phrasing re “at university in Syracuse” jars a bit. McCann’s “voice” adds the poetry to the prose - and while the WSJ reviewer minds, that bothered me not at all.</p>

<p>I loved deducing that the street-kid photographer lives in the same tenement in the Bronx as Corrigan, et al. I loved noticing that this fictional character receives credit for taking the iconic photograph of the towers, plane, and tightrope walker. (And yea! to the the photographer Vic DeLuca, who permitted the use of his photograph in such a way.) So the character’s stories “were world’s apart” (Mary13), yet not at all, really. My favorite part of the reading experience was finding the interconnections.</p>

<p>Maybe the author’s voice remaining makes it easier for us as readers to tie the disparate characters together.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>SJChessMom, I had completely forgotten about Albee, the wheelchair-bound patient. Corrigan says about him, “All he does is work on those chess problems all day long. Used to be a grandmaster or something. Came from Hungary, found himself in the Bronx. He sends his games off in the post somewhere. Does about twenty games all at once.” So the Italian doctor’s visit to a master chess set maker is maybe not as random as it seems…everything’s connected, although it’s not always clear in what way. As ignatius said above, part of reading this book is assembling the puzzle pieces.</p>

<p>Although there are loose ends in the stories (all well and good), there is also a hint of resolution—as if the author were providing a crumb of information and allowing the reader to go ahead and finish the story himself. For example, CBBBlinker wondered about the graffiti photographer, Fernando. Since we know that the photo credited to Fernando is in reality a now-famous one, what is McCann trying to say? I like to think it means that the artistic, hopeful, creative Fernando finally got his big break.</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>^I like to think it means that the artistic, hopeful, creative Fernando finally got his big break.
Yes, I think so!</p>

[Mary13]

<p>ignatius’ post has got me thinking about “voice.” Creating a truly original (and accurate) voice must be one of the author’s greatest challenges. Those of you who are book club old-timers, do you recall our discussion about The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society? I remember that as much as we liked the individual letters, some of us had a little difficulty at first keeping everyone straight. There was a certain amount of shared quirky humor mixed with thoughtful reflection that carried from one letter to the next–the author peeking through, I suspect. And with The Help, we talked a lot about whether or not Stockett’s voices were “authentic”, or if the privileged white author occasionally let her own views and experiences color the words of her black characters. Creating characters completely unlike oneself is risky business. Colum McCann himself acknowledges this in the interview with Nathan Englander at the end of Let the Great World Spin: “Part of the joy of writing, as you know, is that we cast the boat out from the shore without any clue when, or if, we’re going to be able to hit land. This novel terrified me in the sense that there were times I didn’t feel like I was writing it at all. I was being blown around by twelve different voices.”</p>