Yes, you’re right @sports777 ! I’m usually better at picking up on that ! This is a difficult thread. We will all be elderly at some point if we’re lucky and I definitely hope my children will respect my wishes down the line in these kind of matters.
I would absolutely respect Dad’s wishes and dispose of them - though not in the garbage. I would shred them.
I have purchased many old postcards, and fingered through mounds of old letters in second-hand shops. I always presumed the owner of the items died and the children threw them out, only to have someone rummage through a bag sitting at the top of a trash can or bin and decide it was not trash, but ‘vintage’ items to be resold.
I wouldn’t want the world handling my father’s letters to my mother, especially after he explicitly stated he didn’t even want his children to do so.
Yes, I asked, “What would you do?” in this situation. It is ok if any of you would make a different choice. (Some posters phrasing/tones do come across as a bit harsh. I’ve been on CC a long time–I can take it). I understand that you may have your own personal reasons to have strong feelings about this issue.
I guess we’ve all learned that if you want to dispose of personal letters, you must burn them-- which my dad could have easily done in his family room fireplace. The fact that he didn’t burn them could indicate that he wasn’t so much worried that someone might read them, but he was done with them, they were trivial, not of any interest–so into the trash. I don’t know exactly what my sister said besides asking him why he threw them away. I don’t think she protested much or begged him to reconsider. I think she left the house at that point, wanting to respect his wishes. But she couldn’t bear the thought of that family history in the trash.That’s when she called me and asked what she should do.
Dad probably doesn’t understand what the letters mean to us. And we really really want to keep them. So Sis has chosen a way (yes, a sneaky way! )–with my long-distance support/approval-- to save the letters while letting him think that they were disposed of. It’s ok if you think this is wrong. We think it is wrong, too. But it felt even more wrong to leave them in the trash. The deed has been done. No turning back. I think the sibs would all agree–it’s just easier to keep a secret between 2 people than among 6.
@atomom So if your children did things behind your back and if your siblings did things behind your back you would be fine with it?
I hope you are joking. When I throw something in the trash I expect for people not to rummage through my trash and retrieve the items.
You can shred them all now. The overwhelming response is in favor of this. Why did you bother creating this thread if you didn’t want to take the advice of the overwhelming support that you shouldn’t have kept the letters?
I don’t think so. Secrets always comes back to bite you in the butt at the end.
I throw lots of things in the trash and expect them to all remain there until they are duly burned in our city’s hpower plant that turns them into power. I would be shocked and upset to know people foraged through and salvaged things I specifically said I wanted discarded and did discard.
I do understand and would be sad if my parent didn’t want to share with me and my sibs but would feel it is their personal choice.
“I would be shocked and upset to know people foraged through and salvaged things I specifically said I wanted discarded and did discard.”
I hear you, @Hlmom, and yet this is both common practice and legal as long as the trash is on the curb - property of your local municipality - in many,if not most, places.
So far, most folks put items at the curb with a sign that says “Free” or similar to indicate they’re giving it away. They do that rather than dumping it in the trash can.
I wasn’t referring to the OP’s father. He didn’t tell her about the letters, her mother did.
This isn’t an election and OP isn’t bound by the advice given on this forum.
The tone of some of these posts is bordering on the offensive. OP shouldn’t have to “take it,” even though I know she can. There’s a difference between saying “I wouldn’t do it” and harping on someone for for doing something you wouldn’t.
@atomom, I apologize for saying your dad was selfish. I think he just isn’t aware that things like that might mean something to you. My husband’s mom is like that. His dad was the sentimental one. A few months after he died my MIL and SIL cleared out everything he’d saved – his mother’s Sunday dishes, letters, photos and videos (MIL didn’t need them because she “was there”), expensive sports equipment and tools, his military uniform – everything. Those things had value to him. To them, they were just clutter. It didn’t occur to them to ask if any of the children or grandchildren wanted any of it. (They all did). My husband and I were able to salvage a lot of it because we live in the same county and saw the boxes of stuff spread out on tarps on my MIL’s lawn.
My dad’s sister did something similar. She was the eldest so all the family papers were left to her (naturalization papers, marriage and birth records, family letters, etc.). The verbal agreement with her father was to pass them on to someone in the next generation. For almost as long as I knew her she prided herself on being the “family historian and spokesperson”, but in her later years she decided they were “private” and she burned all of it. Her grandfather left Europe (alone) as a teen and the only record of him was in those papers. We know his name, but that’s all.
It’s very easy for people to tell someone else to burn family papers, but it’s not your history. Once they’re destroyed, OP will never get them back. I have a suspicion that she knows her siblings and father better than we do. If she says her siblings would likely agree with the decision and her dad wouldn’t be that upset, I believe her.
" I think he just isn’t aware that things like that might mean something to you."
Then the mature and respectful thing to do is discuss that. “Dad, I know you state you are done with the letters but it would be meaningful to me to keep a few in the family”.
Bottom line, the dad stated they were “personal”. As the surviving spouse, the letters belong to him. It is his right to do what he wants with them and that request should be honored (or discussed openly between adult family members if one feels strongly about the matter).
I honestly find it mind boggling that many here feel it is okay to sneakily pick through the trash and then keep it a secret. I seriously doubt the deceased mother would have wanted that and been okay with that.
As far as being family history, it isn’t. It is history between two people that shared their life for decades. A personal history. As children, we don’t have a right to every aspect of our parents’ lives just as they don’t need/deserve to be all knowing about our lives.
Sort of apropos. Though I certainly don’t think that your parents’ letters are at this level, I just read that Hugh Hefner, in the 1990’s, arranged for much of his materials to be buried at sea in a casket in some sort so that they could never be found and shared. Clearly, Hef’s stuff would be “racy/intimate” and could expose people to gossip or worse, so it’s not quite in the same ball park, but I thought it was interesting that this story came out now, when CC is discussing a similar issue.
I didn’t realize that there were siblings other than OP and the one sister and now the circle of secrecy and deception is expanding to include 4 people other than the dad.
I still think it was wrong for your sister to do and wrong for you to endorse.
It’s not all on OP or the sister. Dad could have asked.
But I agree with @austinmshauri that some things can be about posterity. We inherit more than genes. Our family and family connections are more than the present.
Why is it offensive that he disposed of them and she took them back?
We shouldn’t make a value judgement here. Not, “I wouldn’t, so she shouldn’t.”
And the deed is done. The info brought pleasure, not some nasty reaction.
In this era of 23 and Me, interest in roots, why does it need to be dispassionate?
Because they are HIS private correspondence? Not hers or her sister’s? And… the deed is not complete. The OP & sister could:
- Decide that what they did was against their dad’s wishes and dispose of them without reading any more, copying, etc.
OR - Talk to their dad and tell him what they did, and ask if it is okay because it is meaningful to them. That is what adults would do.
I guess this boils down to an ethical dilemma. The OP and sister admittedly are doing something they understand to be wrong, under the presumption that the retention of these personal documents outweighs this clear breach of trust. Not only that, but their four other siblings will be kept in the dark as well, presumably because they may disagree with hiding these historic “treasures” while their father - who is under the impression he disposed of them - is still living.
While I empathize with the OP that they feel entitled to these letters, his preference that they be discarded is not unreasonable by any standard. Just because we disagree with a choice made by someone else doesn’t give us the moral right to ignore their wishes, especially a loved one.
I see it as letters Mom received. This isn’t about him inheriting them or that Mom should have passed them on while alive or listed them in a will. People get older. They forget. Some things are left undone. These did mean something to Mom.
But I don’t understand the challenges being thrown back at OP, words like stealing, and that she must know she did wrong because they haven’t told other sibs. Families do retrieve items of value to them.
Why such a hard line? As if it’s so very black and white? No middle ground?
I feel like there may be an “ageism” component of this as well. Because he is elderly, maybe this is perceived by some as more okay? This isn’t an issue of health or safety for him – I get why families sometimes do have to deceive elderly relatives when their health or safety is at risk. But this isn’t one of those situations.
Some here have dealt with elderly issues and experienced the results. Not ageism but a different perspective. It’s about balance, not absolutes. Some here define family and family history as more than just what we learned in our own life.
Dad, as a widower, reacted in his own way. That’s not all that needs looking at.
I just say we back off labeling OP’s sister.
My dad is 91. I wouldn’t dream of doing this. And he would be furious if I did. I’d be within my right to ASK him for them. But I’d consider it entirely his decision whether to give them to me (and my guess it that he would say no). If he’d wanted the OP and her sister to have them, he’d have given them to them, or possibly just left them to find after he is incapacitated or deceased. He made a decision. He has autonomy. It is being ignored.
The desire to save that piece of “history” (again I’d argue it is a history belonging to those in the private relationship not the family) doesn’t trump honesty and integrity when dealing with one’s parent, IMO. If you can’t openly state you want them and took them, you shouldn’t be doing it at all.
Did the mother ever say she wanted the letters to be kept by family members when she passed away? Did she ever share the actual content of the letters with her adult children? If not, then she obviously didn’t think it important that they know or she, too, felt they were a private part of her relationship with her husband. What exactly is in those letters that would change family history anyway? And is it enough to risk alienating the father if he ever found out? Or some riff with siblings if they find out? Would it still be okay to take the letters if the parents decided to trash them 20-30 years ago?
I value both honesty and privacy. One’s own sense of loss and desire for connection through some pieces of paper does not trump the questionable ethics of sneaking around here and deceiving family members.
Personally, I don’t get the whole 23 and me type stuff anyway so my desire to know family details doesn’t surpass my desire to honor my parents’ wishes while they are alive.
This isn’t what OP said at all. She doesn’t seem to think her siblings would you object.
Age doesn’t have anything to do with it. When my FIL could no longer drive safely the family took his keys and they told him why. They didn’t deceive him just because he was old. He was pretty upset about the loss of Independence, but we acknowledged that. It was difficult for everyone. I wouldn’t make the assumption that people lie to the senior members of their family, even for health and safety issues, as a general rule. Situations are different, though, and I guess we’ve been pretty lucky.
When my father died, my mother and I were going through his ‘things’ and came across a stick of letters my mother had written to my father. My mother had no idea my father had saved those letters for 60+ years (she hadn’t saved any of his!); after reading them, she destroyed them. I remember feeling quite upset at the time a) she wouldn’t allow me to read them 
and b) I wanted her to save them for me and my siblings. She refused and said it was private correspondence. The short of it is, you should respect your father’s wishes; it seems that he has reread the letters and taken a stroll down memory lane; now it’s time to relinquish them to his and your mother’s history - and respect his wishes!