My daughter, a rising high school senior and late bloomer with a 3.98 weighted GPA and SAT score of 2010, is certain she wants to major in a science, probably an applied science, but she doesn’t yet know which one. She is a kind and deep kid with an introverted streak (thought she’s done all of the necessary extracurriculars for the college app). She walks the line between being quietly confident and mildly intimidated.
I have the urge to find a comfortable environment in which she can explore science options without feeling rushed, pressured, or intimidated. On the other hand, I don’t want to underestimate her ability to jump in and find her way in a place like Steven’s Institute.
My questions, then, are these
Is it okay to go to a Steven’s Institute of Technology not knowing exactly what you want to be when you grow up?
What does it mean to study science at a liberal arts college.
Are there small-to-medium-sized liberal arts colleges with amazing science departments? (or what about a place like Emerson that allows you to take classes from all the neighboring colleges?)
I hate to point out the obvious…but what is the matter with Rutgers? Lots of choices to explore.
My daughter also wanted to major in sciences…she thought (she actually did so) but because she also wanted the opportunity to really explore and possibly choose a different track, she did NOT apply to,any of the tech schools.
If your daughter isn’t sure…why not choose a place with a wider breadth of options?
And yes, there are tons of schools,with good,science departments that aren’t huge.
With a strong interest in science she should consider your flagship U or other larger universities. Some tout LACs and their wonderful physics or other facts that so many students from there get into grad schools. But what I see Is a very limited science curriculum. So many flagship U’s have great exposure to research and a wide variety of science majors. Then there are many elite universities with a wide variety of good sciences. Never heard of the tech school you stated- must be a regional school.
College is an education, not just a job training place. She should explore many schools with sciences and engineering in your area. For now expand the list to explore as much as she can online. Then narrow the list based on multiple factors.
A large school should not be ruled out. Many introverted students populate the STEM majors at big state U. You do not need to be involved in whatever the other 80-90% of the students are doing. College is not HS. In college everyone can follow their own path regardless of the rest.
Before you get carried away consider finances. Your D’s stats show promise of success but not necessarily being of the merit money caliber at many places.
Your D is more than her academic likes. She needs to figure out where in the country she wants to be first. Your region? She needs to visit large and small campuses in large and small cities. Some thrive in a NYC environment while others do best in medium cities or more isolated places. Then there is the campus geography. Some love the small campus while others feel too confined and limited. Add in the campus culture. Strong or nearly nonexistent Greek culture? Liberal, religious, you name it.
btw- I was a chemistry major at the fantastic flagship. I can relate to liking sciences. Son started with both math and physics, ended up with math. I know what it was like to have smart TAs and do class work in grad labs for honors sections of chemistry courses. Many top students end up at their state flagship for financial reasons- like I did.
Your D will find many likeminded people at a general university and be able to explore/expand her horizons by being with many outside the sciences while still having a large core of fellow science majors.
Would she consider a women’s college like Bryn Mawr? Great options and encouragement for women in the sciences. DIL graduated a few years ago, loved it, and is currently a fully-funded PhD student at UC Davis in Ecology- one of the top Eco programs in the country. I think many LACs have strong science departments. Math and science are liberal arts- many people forget.
The problem I see with Emerson is that it’s strength is the fine arts, performing arts and writing- not so much the sciences.
BatesParent2019
Today at 12:39 pm edited 12:46PM @MomofCarolyn
I am a NJ parent as well. My son will be starting college in a few months.
From what you described I would not recommend Stevens unless your daughter is set on engineering. Also, the social environment may not be right for every child, especially a female. Stevens is 75% male. It is also very poor with financial aid and scholarships.
Your question about liberal arts colleges is a good one and many parents are confused by this. Now, all this term means is that the programs and teaching are solely or almost entirely for undergraduate students. These colleges have small classes and the best of them are taught by Phds not teaching assistants. A very long time ago, these colleges focused on humanities but that is not the case anymore.
Since you are early on, the best approach is to visit schools that are close.
Given your daughter’s stats you should visit Lehigh, Lafayette, TCNJ, Muhlenberg, Bucknell, Dickinson and Gettysburg. TCNJ is NJ’s elite state school and it is a really nice school with an excellent reputation. It looks like any elite school in New England.
See what she thinks about these schools, then venture out a bit more. Don’t overwhelm her right now. Lehigh, Lafayette and Muhlenberg could be done as one long day trip as they are very close to each other.
TCNJ shouldn’t be much more than an hour for most people. The new $100 million STEM facility will open in about a year and a half.
My daughter is at an institute of technology (IIT in Chicago). The difference is she was very certain she wanted to study engineering—and a specialty of engineering not available at our state schools at that. Even so we had many discussions about the pros and cons of a tech school, especially if she decided to change her major. We discussed what would her options would be if changed majors. She’s very happy at IIT and is still very certain about her major, but if she had been more undecided at the beginning, we would have likely aimed for our state universities so she could explore a bit more.
Your daughter’s personality sounds a lot like my daughter’s. She’ll be fine at whatever school she chooses, especially if she is willing to push herself a bit out of her comfort zone, try new things, take opportunities, get involved.
OP, search out posts by b@r!um in the international students subforum. She studied math at Bryn Mawr and went on to Stanford for grad school. Yet she warns serious science and math students against most LACs, saying the curricula is limited, as are options to study at partnering schools due to such logistics as transportation, schedules and requirements. Barium is an unusually qualified poster, with a talent for data analysis. I tend to trust her insights.
My daughter also goes to a tech school, and it is perfect for her. She’s in engineering, but should she want to change her major it would be to chemistry or math or some other STEM subject. The school doesn’t offer much (and no majors) in the arts, English, history or languages, but that doesn’t matter to her. It does have a very nice art, music, and theater group, but almost all non-credit (engineers tend to like orchestra instruments). Like Parentof2014grad’s school, my DD’s school is 75% male, and a good number international students. My daughter loves it because everyone seems a little more equal. There is still a lot of cliques, but not in a discriminatory way. The clubs and Greek organizations are all very diverse, and women seem to hold a higher percentage of leadership positions.
However, if OP’s daughter isn’t sure of a STEM major, I would not recommend a Tech school. There are just too few offerings in other areas. There are non-stem majors at DD’s school, but even most of those have a Tech influence: psychology heavy on the biology, forensic science, airport management, construction management.
Just took a look at TCNJ since I’d never heard of it. That looks like an interesting option. I agree with @BatesParent2019 except for the amount of time needed on-campus when visiting. Recommend your spend 1 day per school. Otherwise it runs together and becomes mud. Have your daughter attend a class, talk to students, eat in the dining facility, visit a dorm, talk with an admissions counselor, and get a feel for the campus. Campuses have very different cultures and it’s worth taking the time to dig deeper.
@Knoxpatch TCNJ used to be called Trenton State Teachers College. I guess around 15 years ago the state decided to compete with the PA schools that are so close and converted it to a state school for high achievers. Enormous funds have been invested. Campus Town opens this summer which is a private development on campus with apartment, retail and restaurants. They have done an excellent job. The business school kids I have met are right there with NYU kids.
^Longer ago than that. My D graduated HS in 2000, and TCNJ had already been known as the great in-state alternative to RU for some time. That being said, I don’t know that it’s anymore “elite” than Rutgers–the student bodies are fairly equivalent.
Don’t rule out LACs for science. You do need to dig into their course catalog to determine the depth/breadth of their upper level courses and how often they are taught. Ask your D if she prefers a small class size and having professors know her by name, or if she prefers to be more invisible in a larger classroom with TAs and no personal interaction with professors. Introverted students are not all the same, and figuring out what suits your D best will help you in the college admissions process.
My D is a science major at a regional LAC. Got great merit aid, and after freshman year was eligible for additional department specific scholarships. She loves her experience and was able to start working in the lab her very first semester. Has worked her way up in the lab and based on that experience has a great summer internship in a food company lab this summer.
There are opportunities at both large state U and at smaller LAC for the science student. Will she have to fight for a research position at the larger school? But at the same time, larger schools may have financial resources for research that aren’t available at the smaller LAC.
Plan some college road trips, even if it has to be during the summer. Let her walk around on a number of campuses. Seeing the reality of a rural campus cut off from civilization is different from looking at a map or seeing photos in a brochure. And the noise of rush hour traffic on an urban campus can be a rude awakening.
Lots of variety to choose from. That’s the blessing and the curse of the college admissions process. Your job as a parent is to help expose your D to the schools that offer her a variety of science majors and let her start thinking about where she wants to apply.
I encourage you to figure out FIRST how much you can afford to spend for her college years. Establishing that financial boundary and discussing it with your D up front will save a lot of heartache later on. If merit aid is needed to be able to afford college, then that will be the first filter you use in making college choices.
Agree to not rule out LACs for science. Some have various specialties in certain areas (she should think about which area she wants to do to help narrow choices) and have really nice facilities for the size of the school. It all depends on the desired area of concentration and the list of schools she wants to pursue, but there are LACs with great science programs.
My somewhat introverted D attends RIT - as a technical/digital arts student. They have a very, very good arts program, and all students are required to complete a liberal arts immersion. I haven’t looked much at Stevens, but I think they also have a humanities/arts side. And D has not found it being awkward with so many guys (though admittedly there are far fewer girls in engineering than arts - don’t know about other sciences). Anyway, I think technical institutes are often unfairly labeled as “narrow”. I’d go visit Stevens and compare the atmosphere before making a decision!
I will just mention that I went to Swarthmore and majored in Engineering (and went on to a Ph.D. at Stanford). Course catalogs do not (necessarily) tell the whole story. I worked as an intern at Bell Labs during my college years, and an employee who had never heard of Swat saw my course book sitting on my desk that summer (back in the days when we were all hard-copy, you know) and laughed when he looked at the physics courses, because many of them were of the “physics for poets” variety. He didn’t realize that ALL physics majors at Swat were in the “honors” program, which meant taking only two seminars per semester, very in-depth, very rigorous, so the catalog was dominated by those intro courses for non-majors. So do your research, is all I can say. Swat has always done very well sending physics majors to top-flight grad programs, and out into the world.
LACs are often very good choices for science majors, as are Tech institutes. If your daughter is considering engineering as a possibility, however, then the Tech Institute or state flagship will be a slightly better choice.
The bottom line, however, is that she needs to be comfortable whereever she attends.
Stevens is a pricy instate option for what it is-its worth a look, but if money is an issue, she may want to take a quick peek at NJIT instead. every kid is different of course, but if she is even a tiny bit unsure of her path, it really would be worth considering tri-state LAC’s if she wants to stay in the area. Rutgers has its place, but its not for everyone-it really is a ginormous school with a hugely diverse student body in every way, including adult commuters. only your D can make the decision on what type of environment she prefers after looking at a variety of types.
personally, i’m using the summer to haul my kid to every U and LAC in driving distance-not so much because she will apply to them but to help her decide whether urban/small campus/rural/etc will appeal to her…once we figure out her preferred vibe, we will narrow the options based on major and affordability and go from there.
OP, another question you may want to ask is the vibe/culture at particular schools, and whether that would suit her. I’m also a parent of a somewhat introverted, later-bloomer child (male), and it occurred to me as we visited some of the great schools that other folks have mentioned, that the culture fit would be important too. For example, Lehigh was a bit “preppy” for my nerdy non-partying son (and I mean no disrespect by that, Lehigh is a terrific school). So, keep that in mind too.
My son applied to a bunch of colleges with good engineering, and also technical schools, and is heading to Case Western in the fall. He did not want a full blown liberal arts experience, but Case does have some depth in other areas besides engineering, so I hope he will get some of that flavor.
Besides Swarthmore which others have mentioned, Tufts is another LAC with good engineering. Oberlin too has a good reputation in terms of sciences. Emerson… nah. Too artsy.
I do think that Stevens is probably not the right place if she is not sure yet about pursuing science/engineering. Then again, it doesn’t hurt to take a look and/or apply. They have a late application deadline, so she can decide after she’s submitted other applications.
