<p>“All the time, true criminals get off because they “weren’t convicted,” but that doesn’t mean that in truth they didn’t break the law.”</p>
<p>“Truth” has nothing to do with “Law”. And in this case, neither does what you have in your heart or mind. The “law” says if you are not convicted, you are not guilty. Period. It isn’t a gray area. The law doesn’t care if you are “innocent”; only that you are not “guilty”. </p>
<p>I don’t think anyone cares in the least what you consider yourself. As of now, you are as illegal as she is.</p>
<p>LakeWashington, I completely agree. You hit the name on the head about authorities not pursuing quality of life crimes against illegals.</p>
<p>What bothers me the most is the failure to recognize that these are not victimless crimes. Identity theft is not victimless, social security fraud is not victimless, and automobile crime is not victimless. There is also an aggresive and entitled mentality among some illegals with whom I am acquainted. That things are owed them and that they can pretty much do what they want with impunity. Which, of course, they have. Breaking the law allows one to believe that laws are for others and heaven help the rest of us.</p>
<p>in re posts 16 and 17(mostly) the Op tells us she and her parents are illegal immigrants, a bit about the situation, and asks what should be the action. It is only fair of those here who wish to offer an opinion that we base our opinion on the facts as presented. If I drive 65 in a 55 mph zone, I am a speeder-whether or not I arrested- but that isn’t relevant. The “what to do” opinions op is seeking should be based on facts as presented. Naturally, if what is presented isn’t accurate, we all know that could change our opinion. </p>
<p>I say, given that she is illegal immigrant(a federal crime), it is not cruel and unusual punishment to make her leave. Give her the option of what to do with her son. As for SS fraud, that only makes it worse. She didn’t choose to come here, but she chose to stay.</p>
It’s not just what I would consider myself to be, it’s what I am. I realize that there IS a difference between what’s true and what the law states, but I think true justice should always go along with the truth, although obviously that’s not enforcable.</p>
<p>We (collectively) are the ones who continue to leave the door wide open for illegals to enter. We have, in the past, offered blanket amnesty. We need to put up a fence to stem the flow, but we also need to either deport them all (with refunds, I agree) or give amnesty options. What we should not do is continue to pretend that this is not a serious problem and continue to not solve it. It’s a national shame.</p>
<p>OK, so let’s call her an undocumented alien (since she presumably can not produce any documentation from the BCIS showing that she is legally allowed to be in this country). We know that it is up to the judges to make the call about her being an illegal alien or not. But that’s not the point here. Do you know how many hoops a foreigner has to jump through to legally obtain a permanent resident staus which can lead to US citizenship? We all get mad at people who obtain wealth or status by cheating. Why are we so lenient towards the people who bypass the immigration laws?
As a human being, I feel sorry for her. As a law-abiding citizen, I have to side with the laws.</p>
<p>"Why are we so lenient towards the people who bypass the immigration laws?</p>
<p>We know why - the government believes it is in our collective interest to do so. Social Security would collapse without payments from gainfully employed undocumented immigrants. Businesses around the U.S., starting with agriculture, would face great hardships. And because the cost of enforcement would be extraordinarily unpopular politically.</p>
<p>Those may not be sufficient reasons, in our judgment (I have other reasons). But we shouldn’t make believe we don’t know.</p>
<p>Is there a link to this story? Is she married? Is there info on the boy’s father? What else don’t we know? Was this a private medical office or a state or federal program (ie health dept) that shared info with another state or federal program that had nothing to do with the medical issues in the case…</p>
<p>I think the point here is 1) The Op has stated she is illegal alien, and a S.S. cheat; we have no facts to dispute that, so let’s call her an illegal alien. 2) The Op has asked for opinions of “what to do” in this particular case.
I say “the point here” is to offer opinions to the Op based on what was presented.
I think the debate on what is illegal, is it fair, exactly who, are immigration laws fair, and so on, is a good healthy debate, but imo doesn’t belong in this thread.</p>
<p>Interesting. When “visitors” to the US take menial labor, the argument is to let them stay because US workers “don’t want” those jobs. When they have “more respectable” jobs (couldn’t find any US citizens needing a library job?) then we should let them stay because they are making something of themselves.</p>
<p>I don’t know the answers, but I get tired of a multitude of conflicting justifications being tossed in the fray, hoping something will stick.</p>
<p>I am strongly in favor of repealing that part of the Constitution that lets someone who was born in the US automatically be a citizen. The 14th amendment was ratified so that slaves were made citizens. Changing that provision would eliminate a lot of problems. </p>
<p>I think she and her entire family should be deported. They knew the risks. They flaunted our laws. If we let her stay here, what about her parents? Should they be separated from their grandchild? Send them all back. I am sure that we can find a citizen to fill her job.</p>
<p>I’m not getting the “she chose to stay” discussion. At, what, 2, 3? For shame on her part. (Surely a cute toddler could score some nifty hitchhike rides, right?</p>
<p>By the time she was, let’s say, 18, what kind of real choice would there be? CAn we imagine any of our own 18 year old children leaving the USA, never to come back? Can we (just as an imaginary exercise) try to imagine what that would feel like? </p>
<p>How so, Treetopleaf? I thought Garland was saying that very thing? Which is why it’s complicated in this case. The person who is now an adult had no choice in the matter, but a crime WAS committed, and we do need to rein in identity theft by treating it seriously.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is much need for speculation here. </p>
<p>This person will be declared inadmissible and deported. She will remain in custody until the day of her deportation. Bonds and appeals are not applicable. The fact that she is the mother of a US citizen is not relevant. </p>
<p>Depending on the gravity of her offense, she might be “lucky” and barred from the United States for 10 or 20 years. However, she probably will be barred to reenter forever. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, this person could have faced the same problem had she been a LEGAL permanent resident (with a GREEN card.) There are thousands and thousands of similar cases.</p>
<p>I wonder if the story was written about the librarian with the baby simply because that was the heartstrings aspect - Perhaps the entire family is involved, including the parents? I’m just speculating - but if I were the parent in this situation, I can imagine that my S1, working for the government, might be a much more thrilling story, even if all of us were involved.</p>
<p>I saw a comment on another site that she shouldn’t be deported because she had no immediate family there. But if they deported her whole family, then she would, right?</p>
<p>I suppose a compromise would be to deport her, then allow her to begin the process to enter legally? The Catch-22 is that if we make it easier for those who come illegally than for those who do it the right way, then we only encourage more illegals. Perhaps streamlining the legitimate pathways might be the first step.</p>
<p>I am being perfectly honest when I say I don’t know the answers. People are trying all kinds of crazy things to get to the US. I can feel bad for them, but still believe that wide open doors aren’t the answer, either. There has to be some sort of control. That isn’t new. I thought it was heartbreaking at Ellis Island to learn about the folks in the early 1900s who travelled here by ship at great expense, only to be immediately refused entry for a variety of reasons, and put right back on the ship.</p>
<p>Sometimes I find myself discouraged by the numbers of people already here (citizens) who seem to hate the US, and are especially vocal and critical. I am not of the “America: love it or leave it” persuasion. I’m all for free speech and free exchange of ideas and opinions. I just think that the numbers of people trying to come here must see something we don’t.</p>
<p>So I googled and she is married (2 years or so), and apparently he is not an illegal alien. So why, at that point, would one not just try to right the wrongs she had committed? If she married a citiizen, why not start to process to become legal, get a SSN, and make things right? Why would one continue to use a SSN that was not theirs and continue the process of wrong? And she is a mother now, why compromise her son and his happiness by continuing to live a lie?</p>
<p>“I just think that the numbers of people trying to come here must see something we don’t.”</p>
<p>In southern Mexico and Guatemala, they see their land, which they’ve worked for centuries, expropriated by U.S. backed multinationals to graze cattle for our hamburgers.</p>
<p>These folks simply weren’t coming here until NAFTA. Now they “see” survival.</p>