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<p>[Lies</a> We Tell Kids](<a href=“http://www.paulgraham.com/lies.html]Lies”>Lies We Tell Kids)</p>
<p>This is a great article. Maybe every parent should get a copy as they leave the hospital with their new bundle. He talks about religion, sex, death, swearing - about how we lie to our children and why we do, and why we probably always will. I particularly like the part about religion - I feel extremely uncomfortable telling my children about Christianity as a fact - “Jesus died to save us,” “Jesus wasn’t there when they rolled back the big stone in front of the tomb”, and yet I do say that instead of “I believe that Jesus wasn’t there when they rolled back the stone, but you can believe what you like.” Why do I do that? This man has some of the answers.</p>
<p>I didn’t read the article, so maybe I shouldn’t comment, but I think there should also be a topic called “Lies We Tell Adults.” Children’s truth debt probably also includes lies they tell us in order to get them through!</p>
<p>Graham’s assumptions and experience do not match mine at all.</p>
<p>It’s unclear to me what lies he is talking about. He explicitly mentions those in regard to religion (but perhaps most parents don’t distinguish between “truth” based on reason and that which is based on faith) and those told to reassure children that life is one happy experience after another (my assumption has been that kids see through this in a moment – I would have no problem honestly answering a question about whether the the Thanksgiving turkey wanted to die).</p>
<p>tokenadult: Liked this article. Especially interesting to read being at the kind of “in between” stage, myself. It’s got my head so flooded with relevant anecdotes that I’ll just leave my response at “thanks” ;)</p>
<p>It’s always interesting to read a well-written parental perspective…but, agree w/fendrock—almost nothing he said matched my approach/experiences, either.</p>
<p>PS re-read fendrock’s post – I wouldn’t have a problem w/the T-day question either. In fact, I’d probably mention something about factory farming, etc. lol</p>
<p>Utter load of crap. Typical cynical NYer trying to overly intellectualize simple growing from child to adult. Children at theur level find out that bad things happen–even to good people. It may not be the loss of 1000’s in war but the loss of friend or a pet to an accident.</p>
<p>barrons–</p>
<p>I thought the article was nonsense too, but why do you think he’s a New Yorker? He obviously did not grow up in New York City and can’t imagine raising kids here. (I live in NY and think it’s a great place to raise kids or at least there are lots of neighborhoods that are good places for families.)</p>
<p>An interesting article, but my sense is that this guy has no idea what he’s talking about. It is very, very hard to lie effectively to kids on a sustained basis. They know you very well – they’re watching all the time, they live in your house, and their interest in you is as powerful as the CIA’s interest was in the Kremlin back in the day. (It’s easy to SAY lies, but they know you’re lying, and they’re thinking “Why is he lying about this?”)</p>
<p>I have told few if any outright lies to my kids over the years. I will admit to being less than effusive about some of my character flaws, but I have discussed the major ones with them at least to some extent. I have been honest with them about race, sex, drugs ‘n’ alchohol, and certainly religion. (For various reasons, I never had to tell them I believed Jesus was resurrected. But I’m sure they know I don’t believe the universe was created in six days, and I KNOW they know what a stupid holiday I think Hanukah is, because I won’t shut up about it.)</p>
<p>My mother got away with a giant whopper with me. Until after my high school graduation, I belived my father was intimately involved in my upbringing. However, a series of personal conversations with him – we talked a lot, but usually about movies, politics, or his job – made me realize that he didn’t have a clue, and never had, that my father as wise parent was a fiction that my mother had foisted on me. It didn’t make me cynical. It made me admire what a great weaver of aspirational fictions my mother was.</p>
<p>I just always hated when my parents would not let me do things without giving me the real reason. They would always beat around the bush, and I usually could forsee when they would say no to something, but not know the real reasoning. Or get some reason that made absolutely no sense. </p>
<p>My all-time least favorite was when I was invited to go to Halloween Horror Nights with some older friends. I didn’t drive at this point, but they all did, but I knew my parents wouldn’t let me ride with other kids since they didn’t know how good of drivers they were (a reason that IS understandable). But when I had set it up to get there AND back with parents, my parents still wouldn’t let me go. My mom then proceeded to tell me the reason why was because “all that stuff is so satanic and you’re too young for something like that.” Uh, I was FIFTEEN! </p>
<p>Also, my parents never let me listen to anything other than Christian music up until the 8th grade. Even though they told me stories of themselves not being able to listen to similar music but then going behind their parents backs to listen to the radio or friend’s tapes. So why perpetuate something like that? They were always shocked when I did know songs that were played on commercials or shows, and they’d be like “where did you hear that???” And I’d always respond, “uh, maybe school or the bus, where everyone else listens to this kind of stuff and I can’t stop other people from listening to it!”</p>
<p>Needless to say, I would rate myself in the top 5% of entering freshmen last year who were overly sheltered.</p>
<p>The article seems completely accurate to me. I don’t even have the energy to list he amazing and unhelpful lies adults in particular tell to children in particular. Of course not all adults are that way. I would say most are though. It’s obvious even when you hear the fake tone of voice a lot of adults automatically use when speaking to children.</p>
<p>The “lie to children” in terms of learning science can be pretty stifling for those who read ahead, though.</p>
<p>The primary four science textbook, part of the Singaporean national syllabus (for nine-year-olds), tells us burning sugar is a “irreversible reaction”. But add an enzyme with ATP or put the burnt sugar in a special environment and the burnt sugar might reverse itself! </p>
<p>But of course, maybe they were talking about thermodynamic irreversibility. Yet scientific lies told to children have repercussions later, and math ones are even worse. “You can’t subtract a bigger number from a smaller number” is a major problem for a teacher I know (who teaches remedial math – her students have problems dealing with concepts of negative numbers). And lies stifle the mind. Like what use is telling nine-year-olds that burning sugar is an irreversible reaction while mixing sugar with water is reversible? (By evaporation?) It only stifles their scientific imagination.</p>
<p>galoisien: I know what you mean about math/science lies. I can’t think of any examples now, but it was when I started Algebra 1 that I realized that most of what I’d been told about math was highly abridged and even outright false. I felt pretty annoyed about that since I had to un-learn a lot of it. It’s just too convenient to tell kids untruthful shortcuts in science and math.</p>